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THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC


Darmy647

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

Ive been playing as medic more since lately, the servers ive been playing on have been awkwardly barren of medics. My Medieval medic set is the shit. I love having a crowssbow medic gun. Heavy and medic combo? FUCK THE MEDIC. I'll shoot the fucker down and heal my heavy at the same time. Works WAY better than you'd think. Also, it randomly crits, making for some hillarious Overkills, ive even taken down fully healed soldiers with the crossbows crit.
 

Incubus

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

Now, I'm only just getting back into the game, so I've never used this crossbow. But in my experience of some who's best class is ultimately medic, i doubt its worth using. The only time i have a weapon other than my medigun out is when I'm alone, or ubersawing a spy.

All other times, keep healing gun trained on people. Fun fact, there are times where you can keep 2-3 players healed, usually it involves not being under sustained fire (so against demos and sollys usually)

It is not your job to kill the enemy medic. That belongs to snipers, scouts, spies, or other players good at flanking.
 

Darmy647

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

Now, I'm only just getting back into the game, so I've never used this crossbow. But in my experience of some who's best class is ultimately medic, i doubt its worth using. The only time i have a weapon other than my medigun out is when I'm alone, or ubersawing a spy.

All other times, keep healing gun trained on people. Fun fact, there are times where you can keep 2-3 players healed, usually it involves not being under sustained fire (so against demos and sollys usually)

It is not your job to kill the enemy medic. That belongs to snipers, scouts, spies, or other players good at flanking.
But if i can do two at once, Whats the harm in it? In fact...Who cares? Im keeping heavy alive as priority and taking shots. very useful. With the press of Q i switch between medic healing gun and crossbow very quickly.
 

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

Well for one, you're doing minimal healing for your team, and minimal damage to your enemies (assuming you're actually connecting your shots). If you're switching between the medi gun and the crossbow to heal your pocket, you're doing it wrong. The continuous stream of 24-72 health per second is infinitely better than the maximum 150 health per two seconds (Keep in mind, I said maximum. You have to be at the longest range to heal 150 health. And that means you have to not only connect your shot, but you also have to wait to reload before you can heal a heavy back to full health. And since you're most likely pocketing, your healing with a crossbow would be at 72 health per 2 seconds)

While you do technically heal more with the crossbow, that's like saying picking up a medium health kit is better than a pocket medic. In a firefight, you're constantly healing 24-72 health per second, whereas you heal a maximum of 150 health at a single point in time. On the other hand if you're fighting an enemy pocket combo, you're being even more ineffective. The time it takes you to take out your crossbow, firing at either your heavy or their medic, then switch back to the medi gun, you'll have a severely injured pocket. Plus the fact that you aren't even charging your uber for this pretty much makes it even more ineffective.

Let's assume that you're at 0% uber and you start healing a healthy heavy. That means you'll heal at 24 health per second. Meaning when you get him to full buff, it'll have taken just a little more than six seconds. In about six seconds, you'll have gained 15% uber charge. Now let's say right as soon as he's fully buffed, you see the enemy pocket combo and immediately quickswitch to the crossbow. It'll take nearly one second to pull that crossbow and be ready to fire. Assuming you fired immediately without even aiming and quickswitched back, that'll take about two seconds. In those two seconds, you could've gotten an additional five second charge, assuming you did everything as quickly as possible. And at that same time, the enemy pocket would've probably put in a good amount of damage on either you or your pocket. And now your combo is at a disadvantage because either one or both of you are hurt, and the enemy combo is either healthy (If you missed) or their medic is somewhat damaged (If you hit them). And consider this: Your puny crossbow damage on the medic versus the offensive class's damage on either your pocket or yourself.

Say it's your heavy-medic and their heavy-medic. If you pull out your crossbow to fire at the medic, you stop healing your heavy. This means while you're trying to take out the enemy medic, the enemy heavy can either attack you or your heavy. And since the enemy medic was still healing his heavy, that's a constantly buffed heavy versus a rapidly-dying one.

So now we have a couple scenarios if you try to attack the enemy medic with your crossbow. 1. The enemy heavy attacks you. 2. The enemy heavy attacks your heavy. 3. You killed the medic during either scenario one or two. 4. Your heavy killed the medic during either scenario one or two.

In scenario one, you'll likely die. You're not healing your pocket and you're trying to go offensive, meaning you're away from the safety of your heavy. You die, the enemy medic will be hurt, but will survive. Even if your heavy manages to take down their medic, the enemy heavy will end up winning because he was always fully buffed while your heavy was losing health.

In scenario two, your pocket will likely die. You stopped healing him, meaning he loses his supply of health while the enemy heavy still has his. Like scenario one, even if you and your heavy manage to kill their medic, the heavy has more health and has a clear advantage over the two of you. And even with quickswitching, one of you will likely die.

In scenario three or four, you or your heavy got their medic. The other heavy was either firing at you or your pocket. If it's your pocket, he'll likely die because you didn't provide a constant stream. If it's you, you're very likely to be dead because your pocket was focused on the medic or couldn't outdamage the heal rate of the enemy medic. Either way, someone on your team dies.

The crossbow only encourages medics to recklessly go the offense, which doesn't benefit your team all that much. If you're simply taking potshots while you're waiting to push or prepare for the incoming push, then go ahead. But if you're using it the way you're describing it, you're absolutely doing it wrong. No matter how good you are at going offensive as a medic, you're being a terrible teammate because you're endangering your pocket and yourself for the sake of possibly dealing a little extra damage. Even if you manage to win your battles through this method, you'll end up developing a habit of trying to be an offense medic. What happens if your team is incompetent? You hurt the medic, but your team didn't follow up on it. What if their team is better? They see you not healing, they immediately get extra offensive. All you do is invite trouble by using that thing.

Basically what I'm trying to say is this: The crossbow makes you heal much more ineffectively, doesn't charge uber, and puts both you and your pocket in a vulnerable position because you're doing something risky and he's not being healed. It's simply not worth it.



The numbers I got here can be found on the wiki. I'm also a medic main, hence why I spent HALF AN HOUR TYPING THIS UP WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH ME.
 

Incubus

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

^ pretty much this.

I didn't go into as much detail, but it's pretty much what I was saying. Leave the enemy medic to other team members. The solder who shoots his rockets around the heavy. The sniper who pops the emdic as it dodges out to avoid the rockets. The demoman who carpets the area in stickies (lol, >implying there are people who still use sticky launcher instead of some kind of shield). Heck, the backburner Pyro who slips in behind them and then W+1s.

All of these people are better at dealing with it than you. Pretty much every other class except for engineer is better at dealing with it except for you.
 

Darmy647

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

Im not being an actual Offensive straight up medic. Im just saying its nice to have at your side IN CASE someone sets their sites on you When your alone. As for taking shots while healing, ive done Absolutely excellent in both, and i dont do it constantly, only when i truly feel i have the Good shot to connect and the good shot to finish, and most times i fire, its perfect and a kill shot. Once again i strongly encourage im truly not offensive, its just very nice to have it in case you get cornered and alone when your healing mate dies. That way while running away when my healing buddy dies i dont have to run like a total bitch, i can finish off some guys while on my way out. The 4 hp regen per second thing helps ALOT when getting out of there and continuing on to my next healing buddy. For the 3rd time im encouraging this, Because due to darkfires long Answer i must have put too much emphasis on having fun with the cross bow, im not being actual Offensive entirely medic. Just a slight means of defense in case im either cornered or My healing mate dies and i have nobody else to heal in the vicinity. Good game sirs, i see your point, but im not abusing said crossbow, calm down.
 
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Incubus

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

Eh, I still prefer a blutsauger retreat to a crossbow one.
 

Darmy647

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

Eh, I still prefer a blutsauger retreat to a crossbow one.
The HP regen you get for the medieval set is Pretty nice, and it seems like all the people ive came into contact with recently have learned if its the blutsauger, Dont even engage the medic, so that kinda spoils it :/. The sudden inflow of new players though makes it a little better to surprise them with it though.
 
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Obeliskos

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

It's fine if you have fun using the crossbow, as long as you acknowledge that

a) it's worse than the other medic primaries nearly 99% of the time
b) it's more efficient to heal with the medigun, and that's assuming you actually hit teammates to heal them
c) you miss out on uber potential when you heal with the crossbow

Additionally, since you're implying that you use the amputator, you must also acknowledge that the healing taunt is garbage and you're a fucking moron if you ever use it.

I'm all for fun as long as people who use bad weapons acknowledge that they're less efficient that they could be. This applies to CnD spies, liberty launcher soldiers, natascha/brass beast heavies, gunslinger engies on defense, crossbow/amputator medics, and huntsman/sydney sleeper snipers (just to name a few). Some unlocks are just bad.
 

DarkFire1004

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

If your pocket is dead, you shouldn't be defending yourself with the crossbow. The blutsauger is way better at protection and much faster than the regen if you're decent with your needlework. Hell, the needle gun's regen should be enough to defend yourself with when you're retreating. If it's because you can't get the needle aim down, how're you aiming with the crossbow? Just like how you lead your shots with the crossbow, you lead your needles the exact way, only it's now a constant stream which you can even get health from.

Also, if you're firing because you know that it's a sureshot and a kill, then why're you wasting time not charging up uber? If they're that low of health, your pocket will take care of it for you and you'll continue charging, which is far more important than getting that extra kill.

I only made a long response because I love medic and can talk for hours about it. So no, I won't "calm down". BRING YOUR A-GAME. NO FUN ALLOWED.
 

Darmy647

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

Oh i know its not excellent, its just fun to use. I always concentrate on healing overall. And since im always atleast a good distance, i get good damage with it If i have nobody to heal. Also no, i NEVER use the amputators taunt...Why they thought that would be an awesome idea i will neeeever understand. But yeah, really mostly if i have nobody to heal and the targets atleast about mid-to far away. Ive taken out snipers and incomming scouts and charging demomen with it, but, as i said, i really rely on healing mostly, i only really do that if my guy died and i need some way to fight back, or im getting charged to the point theres really no true escape
 

Incubus

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

My 'favourite' medic moment was still that time I was buddying with a demo and we got cut off and surrounded, the three ways we could go by foot were full of enemies. So what did he do? Stick jumped to safety and elft me for dead.

This was over a year ago, but it still sticks in my mind. Guess who didn't see a drop of healing for the rest of the match...
 

Darmy647

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

My 'favourite' medic moment was still that time I was buddying with a demo and we got cut off and surrounded, the three ways we could go by foot were full of enemies. So what did he do? Stick jumped to safety and elft me for dead.

This was over a year ago, but it still sticks in my mind. Guess who didn't see a drop of healing for the rest of the match...
i had a pretty good one earlier. A lone heavy was outside a door, and it was a shuttered door, only opens if you approach it. So im running out to help the team push up to a control point, and a heavies concentrating fire on another door, he hasn't noticed me come out of the door, so i line up the shot, and it crits a crossbow shot and i kill him instantly. Woohoo!
 

Incubus

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

If we want to talk good moments...

Dustbowl, Stage 3. Defence. 14:05 minutes on the block at stage start.

59 points. 37 assists. 7 dominations. 12 kritzkriegs. A total of 16,531 health healed. No deaths. Absolute shutdown, attackers never took the first point.

Team worked together brilliantly for a supurb defensive effort, with players basically using me as a launching platform around the bunker. I stayed back out of the line of fire, they ran out, fired off rockets/grenades and came back for healing when they reloaded, except when we went on a kritz charge. Team kept me covered from a number of spy attacks, after blowing them up the second they decloacked, as players around the other corner (such as the engie) were watching our backs.

I've got the steam stats to prove it, as this was my alltime greatest life.
 
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Obeliskos

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

My 'favourite' medic moment was still that time I was buddying with a demo and we got cut off and surrounded, the three ways we could go by foot were full of enemies. So what did he do? Stick jumped to safety and elft me for dead.

This was over a year ago, but it still sticks in my mind. Guess who didn't see a drop of healing for the rest of the match...
Uh, he had no chance of saving you. Better for him to survive than both of you die.
 

Incubus

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

Uh, he had no chance of saving you. Better for him to survive than both of you die.
Fuck that, we could have taken down several of them and possibly broken through. He's a demoman, he can put stickies to cover our asses while he fights forward with other weapons instead of running away like a little bitch. And if I'd gotten up to a full uber, we'd be fine.
 

Darmy647

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

Degreaser and axtinguisher. Anything close enough to you dies very, very fast. Hell, a heavy without a medic to support him will go down in about two swings if he's on fire. Those two were made for each other. Haven't tested the detonator, so I dunno if it's worth it. Not sure if I should sacrifice my flare gun for it, since I haven't seen many pyros use it. Flare gun seems to be the most popular secondary.



Heavy's a bit too slow for me, same for soldier and demoman. Altough I'm a bit interested in a melee-oriented demo. I suck as an engie, and I doubt I'd make a good spy. Medic... I don't like support roles. Now I pretty much play nothing but pyro.
After much murder with the detonater, i have to say i really enjoy it. While the original Flare DOES travel a wee bit faster, you can rightclick and detonate the shot, causing a tiny radius of firey pain, causes both Damage and will catch them on fire, so Good o'le dps damage. It works pretty good for nuking enemies who are grouped together instead of just Bumrushing them straight on with the flamethrower. The only real difference you need to look for if a enemy pyro has one is the whistle sound like a firework if hes using the detonater. Me personally, i think its an upgrade over the flaregun, but i'll let everyone else decide, im always wrong to someone
 

Incubus

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

flare gun said:
Additionally, flares will deliver a critical hit on already burning targets.
detonator said:
Should a flare strike an enemy already on fire, mini-crit damage will be inflicted
So in short, it depends on what you use it for. If you're trying to set people on fire or your aim sucks at range, use the one where you can manually detonate.

If you use it as an execution weapon, killing fleeing enemies or followups on previous flares, the extra damage from the normal flare gun is superior.
 
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Obeliskos

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

Fuck that, we could have taken down several of them and possibly broken through. He's a demoman, he can put stickies to cover our asses while he fights forward with other weapons instead of running away like a little bitch. And if I'd gotten up to a full uber, we'd be fine.
We're seeing two different situations. In mine, you guys are surrounded and the enemy is close. In yours, your demo seemed to have plenty of time to deal with targets.

Regardless, you really shouldn't expect your partner to stick with you till the end. It's a pub, after all.
 

Incubus

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Re: THIS IS THE OFFICIAL TEAM FORTRESS 2 TOPIC

They were kinda close, but we're talking an area with lots of twists and turns in corridors, which makes it easy to break line of sight.

But yeah, pubs. Even if it was Muppets server, which generally had good players back when it was open. (lot of comp teams used to chill there, troll, play, etc.)
 
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