Patreon SIM Abandoned [ HartistaPipebomb] Breeding Season

[censuur]

Re: Breeding Season

I don't see what the big deal about keeping an alpha/beta behind a paywall is. You're not entitled to have access to every game in development, just like you're not entitled to walk into a grocery store and take what you want. If you don't like unfinished games, then don't play them. Why is that a problem? Wait until they are finished, or wait until they fail and then play the remnants.

Several issues with that sentiment. If you're on the fence on whether or not to support a Patreon you might want more info, a more recent demo than publicly available etc to determine whether or not you'll go through with it, considering this type of piracy is utterly harmless and potentially beneficial I see little cause to complain about it, and I personally find the expectation to be paid up-front without being forthcoming with your work up-front is a bit too one-sided (and yes, your opinions might differ)

It's also important to note that copying intellectual property is not theft (and no, that's not my opinion, those are the factual legal definitions). Denying a profit is not the same as incurring a loss. As long as you're not directly taking something away from someone it's simply not theft, and we could talk endlessly about the effects of piracy 'potentially' reducing profit but here's the thing, the thing YummyTiger himself brought up somewhat: A company is not entitled to profit. While the illegality of copyright infringement is certainly a core issue in this kind of debate profit simply isn't, a pirate is extremely hard to legally persecute because they cause no damages to a company, reducing potential profit isn't really something that flies in court unless you're dealing with libel/slander.

The one question that's truly relevant to whether or not piracy is okay, is whether or not infringing copyright is okay, it is never and will never be a subject of theft.

but, DO NOT apply this ONE Patreon as an example of ALL Patreons. It's not, and it's incredibly unfair to those of us working or asses off. My one request is that you try to evaluate each Patreon fairly before you do all you can to pirate their work, don't just assume they are scammers like Breeding Season.

I think this is a good time for people to realize there's a significant different between 'trust' and 'faith'. Someone like Sierra Lee or that guy who does Divine Arms who's name I keep forgetting, I can trust. Through repeated efforts and reliable performance this is something that has been established and earned. When someone has little beyond ideas, demos, sketches and framework without any kind of demonstrable, reliable workflow then what you have is faith at best, you're merely just believing something will happen.

Faith is believing in something unproven. Thrust is believing something established doesn't change. Faith, is not a good motivation for something like this.

 

[Soljer13]

Re: Breeding Season

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Thread needs some music.
I'll gladly take flak for this opinion, but hopefully, this scares people away a bit from funding patreon projects. Which in turn hopefully scares patreon project people into putting out more and being more receptive of criticism.

 

[YummyTiger]

Re: Breeding Season

Discussion on piracy vs theft.

I think you missed my point, and the grocery store example was not about theft, it was about the mindset that you're entitled to whatever you feel you want/need. That said, a company is not entitled to profits, but they are entitled to the protection of their products.

One of the things about Val'Jean's comment that is probably most annoying is that he's commenting on how he'll pirate everything he can and then using Breeding Season's debacle as his reasoning. Well, that trying to apply a cause to his actions after the fact. I'm confident he's been pirating Patreon stuff way before this debacle, so my guess is his reasons for doing so are more along the lines of "I want to play this and don't want to pay for it," than any grand gesture against failed Patreon projects.

Trust vs. Faith

Not really sure how that applies to my comment. I will note that both Sierra Lee and Divine Arms relied on faith at one point until "trust" was built up. Yet, my point was an attempt to try to prevent using Breeding Season to stereotype every other Patreon out there. I've already seen comments like "Take a look, this is how 95% of all Patreon projects will end up." That makes me sad, because it is a terrible mindset. I get that people will be even more leery now about Patreon, and to be honest, that's actually a good thing. Force developers to hold themselves to higher standards, but I don't think viewing all Patreons as a future Breeding Season is the right mentality.

 

[DerPeter]

Re: Breeding Season

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Things are starting to get interesting, I expect a muddy fight and in the end two games are dead. Great work everyone, especially Spurple.

 

[censuur]

Re: Breeding Season

I think you missed my point, and the grocery store example was not about theft, it was about the mindset that you're entitled to whatever you feel you want/need. That said, a company is not entitled to profits, but they are entitled to the protection of their products.

I quoted you merely because you raised the subject of entitlement and were the most recent poster on the subject of theft, and somewhat related to what I wanted to say on the matter, it wasn't an attempt to directly challenge or refute what was said before.

One of the things about Val'Jean's comment that is probably most annoying is that he's commenting on how he'll pirate everything he can and then using Breeding Season's debacle as his reasoning.

Despite what his personal rationale (or excuses, as you could arguably call it) are in the end it's of no real concern to any Patreons, right? Actually, let's side step this a bit, as a Patreon user yourself I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter of protecting your work from people. I can understand the sentiment of wanting to reward patrons with something for their support, that's very commendable, but I see little reason to resent anyone accessing your work (especially when you're intending to provide it for free) So I was hoping you'd shed some light on the matter for me, as right now it just strikes me as detrimental for Patreons to limit their content to patrons, as it essentially limits their portfolio to already existing customers, making less easy to attract new ones.

Not really sure how that applies to my comment. I will note that both Sierra Lee and Divine Arms relied on faith at one point until "trust" was built up. Yet, my point was an attempt to try to prevent using Breeding Season to stereotype every other Patreon out there. I've already seen comments like "Take a look, this is how 95% of all Patreon projects will end up." That makes me sad, because it is a terrible mindset. I get that people will be even more leery now about Patreon, and to be honest, that's actually a good thing. Force developers to hold themselves to higher standards, but I don't think viewing all Patreons as a future Breeding Season is the right mentality.

I've been trying to stem the bleeding on Patreons for a while now, faith is the easiest sentiment to abuse and anything relying on it is inevitably going to be confronted with those that would abuse such faith. You see this shit all the time and Breeding Season is neither the first or the last. I generally use the whole argument of faith versus trust because even if you've been burned before (on faith) you can typically still work with trust. Yes, faith is important especially to newer/starting projects, but simultaneously if your entire project relies on faithful support from outsiders there's something not quite right there. In the end, if you got burned on some project because you had little but faith in the author to go by, take a step back and instead look to what you can trust, the problem isn't so much the platform of Patreon (though, it certainly has issues, especially with lack of oversight and accountability) as it is with certain illicit users. I do absolutely agree that we shouldn't allow a few bad apples to spoil the whole bunch, I tend to rather like apples.

Incidentally divine Arms worked on many games before ever doing crowdfunding, and I'd use him as an example of building trust before asking for it.

 

[Crawdaddy]

Re: Breeding Season

Global IQ is falling in rapid pace. Average IQ has fallen to arround 88 allready (from 94 in 1960s)

That's factually incorrect.

 

[YummyTiger]

Re: Breeding Season

Despite what his personal rationale (or excuses, as you could arguably call it) are in the end it's of no real concern to any Patreons, right? Actually, let's side step this a bit, as a Patreon user yourself I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter of protecting your work from people. I can understand the sentiment of wanting to reward patrons with something for their support, that's very commendable, but I see little reason to resent anyone accessing your work (especially when you're intending to provide it for free) So I was hoping you'd shed some light on the matter for me, as right now it just strikes me as detrimental for Patreons to limit their content to patrons, as it essentially limits their portfolio to already existing customers, making less easy to attract new ones.

Ah, I thought you were directly responding to me due to the quote, that makes more sense. My apologies.

As for this, I personally don't worry much about piracy. I am releasing the final product for free, so it ultimately will help me more than hurt. I DO respect those developers who want to sell their product though, and don't feel that them putting it behind a paywall is somehow an evil thing I must fight against.

I ask my patrons when I put something out to not share it for one reason, because I plan to release it publicly after the short beta period. I'd rather the "finished" version spread around the Internet, rather than a beta leaked version. Just my prerogative.

As for your faith comment, I also understand that. I agree with you, I think it would be a good thing for people who supported Breeding Season to take a step back and think about the many warning signs they ignored. Then, when evaluating future Patreons (if they're willing) watch out for those warning signs. I believe that will be a good thing for the entire blossoming western h-game market. Funnel money to the creators that deserve it and prune the money-grabbers.

 

[Clades]

Re: Breeding Season

It's been clear from the beginning that whomever started this project (I don't actually care what their usernames are) just really sucked at their job. I don't care who betrayed who. In the end, the project was a complete clusterfuck from the beginning, and yet they were raking in some big time bucks doing basically fuck-all.

I find it hilarious that there are people defending anyone who was been involved in this situation from the beginning. There is no way either that Hbomb or S-Purple (or whatever the fuck their names are) put anywhere near enough of an effort into getting this project off the ground. I guess I can't blame them too much though, people were throwing tens of thousands of dollars a month at them with apparently no expectation of any work being done. Not a bad gig at all while it lasted.

 

[HentaiWriter]

Re: Breeding Season

Edit: My first yay/nay/neutral is a neutral comment saying "I agree but hf getting dislikes from HentaiWriter." Yeah....

lmao i'm not going to give you a dislike for your opinion because you don't have an ignorant opinion, just a different opinion.

I don't see what the big deal about keeping an alpha/beta behind a paywall is. You're not entitled to have access to every game in development, just like you're not entitled to walk into a grocery store and take what you want. If you don't like unfinished games, then don't play them. Why is that a problem? Wait until they are finished, or wait until they fail and then play the remnants.

This is also true though.

Wonder if this will light a fire under Akabur given it might shatter some of his patrons' naivety.

No, the majority of people pledging to hentai accounts will have no idea this has even happened. I even searched on reddit for posts about it and literally there was one with like four comments across the entire site. Kotaku did an article on it and it only has 21 comments, etc.

This really is only a major deal to those who were deeply into hentai games, like this community, parts of 4chan, so on.

Several issues with that sentiment. If you're on the fence on whether or not to support a Patreon you might want more info, a more recent demo than publicly available etc to determine whether or not you'll go through with it, considering this type of piracy is utterly harmless and potentially beneficial I see little cause to complain about it, and I personally find the expectation to be paid up-front without being forthcoming with your work up-front is a bit too one-sided (and yes, your opinions might differ)

This is also true; you need to give proof that you're progressing, and if you want new Patrons, you need to post stuff publicly at least somewhat for people to realize you're legit.

 

[Shinkaiser G]

Re: Breeding Season

Wait..people were actually suprised this was going to happen? This is the only game i've ever played where newer updates featured less content

 

[DerPeter]

Re: Breeding Season

No, the majority of people pledging to hentai accounts will have no idea this has even happened. I even searched on reddit for posts about it and literally there was one with like four comments across the entire site. Kotaku did an article on it and it only has 21 comments, etc.

This really is only a major deal to those who were deeply into hentai games, like this community, parts of 4chan, so on.

I count 96 comments on the Kotaku article. But I, too, am waiting for a reddit reponse.

While waiting I'll simply enjoy watching the world burn.

By the way, you said you wanted to help the BS team at some point. Well, I guess, if you're still interested, after the dust has settled would be a good moment.

 

[sharpys]

Re: Breeding Season

This patreon scaremongering is becoming hilarious.

Breeding Season has always been a mishandled project without proper, hard-locked milestones in the first year. It took them nearly another half a year just to establish an art direction, and even then, they were still trying to fill out their programming positions. By the time they finally filled out those positions, suddenly they began switching to an entirely different iteration that was a farcry from the original work; Yes it looked good, but at the same time, the behind-the-scenes development was looking bad in retrospect.

If nothing else, BS' failure doesn't allude to the failures of Patreon as a whole nor does it attempts to overshadow other Patreon projects as an omen. It just means the project sucked, plain and simple.

 

[YummyTiger]

Re: Breeding Season

I wonder, and perhaps HentaiWriter might know, would Patreon respond to this situation? I mean, Breeding Season was one of their top grossing Patreons, so it is a black eye for them as well. Would they be able, or willing, to prevent S-Purple from keeping his new Patreon up?

Something like banning artists who blatantly abuse the system in the past. I'd be willing to submit a request to them, or sign a pledge against either HBomb or S-Purple using the service as a creator. If nothing else, at least ban them for a period of time. This quitting a re-opening a new Patreon is disgusting, and a slap in the face to those who supported BS.

 

[Capid]

Re: Breeding Season

...I did suspect Breeding season wouldn't be completed ever, but I didn't expect for the project to go down in flames by infighting.

Honestly, I haven't lost confidence in the patreon system, just like I've found people I wouldn't give even the time, other people have shown a remarkable promise and results (it's a goddamn shame that Sierra doesn't get more money than she does simply because TLS lacks images)

I'd warn against supporting any member of this team, I don't know who is the real bad guy, but all of them acted sleazy for a long time before this happened.

 

[rea_jak]

Re: Breeding Season

It's been clear from the beginning that whomever started this project (I don't actually care what their usernames are) just really sucked at their job. I don't care who betrayed who. In the end, the project was a complete clusterfuck from the beginning, and yet they were raking in some big time bucks doing basically fuck-all.

I find it hilarious that there are people defending anyone who was been involved in this situation from the beginning. There is no way either that Hbomb or S-Purple (or whatever the fuck their names are) put anywhere near enough of an effort into getting this project off the ground. I guess I can't blame them too much though, people were throwing tens of thousands of dollars a month at them with apparently no expectation of any work being done. Not a bad gig at all while it lasted.

Precisely. And now heres a short story on why this whole shit show is what it is and why Hbomb should never be in charge of a development team.

Hbomb started BS and always had the intention of monetizing it. He started off by using a donation system to vote for the content of upcoming patches, but he kept announcing dates for updates and delayed almost all of them significantly. At some point he disappeared along with the donation money which pissed alot of people off and cemented his reputation as an untrustworthy and incompetent developer. Some people on the LOK forums considered reviving development on the project as a community endeavour using Hbombs assets but a few months later he came back and announced his plans for a membership system until he discovered patreon which people payed into for some fucking reason despite his scummy track record.

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(a very common post for Hbomb)

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(another example)

Cue in S-Purple: The new artist for the game appears on February 23 2014. They decided to overhaul the entire game from scratch with a strange (ugly imo) pastel style of art and they essentially dropped bestiality in favour of furry stuff (in order to capitalize on the notorious naivete of the furry crowd I imagine). Then at some point they decided to overhaul the art again for a much better looking art style but that set them back again. Animations for monster breeding took 2 years and weren't even close to being complete because it seemed the team was much more interested in working on pointless H-events with NPC's nobody cared about instead of working on the core mechanics of the game.

I imagine that's why S-Purple became disillusioned with Hbomb and his shitty management, shitty work ethic, and greed. But the way S-purple left is still unprofessional and scummy, but thats no surprise given the way he left his previous game project. The point is this: don't feel bad for Hbomb or S-Purple or anyone else involved...not even the patrons. They are imbeciles who should have known better and have had plenty of signs with which to put 2 and 2 together.

 

[Hentaisearch]

Re: Breeding Season

This reminds me of how Mighty No. 9 single handedly killed all confidence in Kickstarter for most people. I hope that's not the case for Patreon.

 

[colasCageNi]

Re: Breeding Season

This reminds me of how Mighty No. 9 single handedly killed all confidence in Kickstarter for most people. I hope that's not the case for Patreon.

Killed? You mean it made the donators more careful. And i hope that's the case for Patreon. People shouldn't donate for questionable promises. Hopefully they also get more careful.

 

[Sigfried]

Re: Breeding Season

Killed? You mean it made the donators more careful. And i hope that's the case for Patreon. People shouldn't donate for questionable promises. Hopefully they also get more careful.

Hope it makes the developers more carefull, too.
Trying to cater to all plataforms means having to develop to all plataforms. Bad idea.

Dunno if I can draw any paralels to hentai development here...

Hmmm...

"Trying to cater to a wide public by including many fetishes means that either people will be frustrated because there are lots of fetishes they don't like, or that all fetish cotent is shallow and badly implemented."

 

[PineapplePizza]

Re: Breeding Season

This reminds me of how Mighty No. 9 single handedly killed all confidence in Kickstarter for most people. I hope that's not the case for Patreon.

I hope it does. These crowdfunding companies do nothing for the donators except take a cut. These big projects should be backed by their own creator's reputation, not some big name company who either can't or won't do anything but be a platform for advertisement.

Although part of the problem is that Patreon is meant for things like YouTube content creators, musicians, and webcomic artists. Things where constant content is the end goal, not this sort of thing.

 

[itzaguy]

Re: Breeding Season

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