Patreon SIM Abandoned [ HartistaPipebomb] Breeding Season

[HentaiWriter]

Re: Breeding Season

There are 0 incentive to be productive and professional. People literally throw money on scammers with the hope they can play their porn games earlier.

Besides of course, the incentive that you actually like making games and actually want to complete your game.
(And if you're going for money, the incentive to complete your game so you can sell it, which will make you ten times more than any Patreon campaign ever would.)

 

[asdfanon]

Re: Breeding Season

I support S-Purple in his decision, anyone following could see that the project wasn't progressing in a favorable direction for a while now.

 

[Capid]

Re: Breeding Season

I support S-Purple in his decision, anyone following could see that the project wasn't progressing in a favorable direction for a while now.

So you sabotage the project, take all the assets, refuse to even sell them, so the patreon is ruined, and then paint yourself as a victim?

I won't say H-Bomb is a saint, or a good businessman, but in this case he got nailed hard by a betrayal.

 

[settlers]

Re: Breeding Season

hi all

just found out that this game has been Cancelled for good due to someone called S-purple has ran away with half there money watch this link for the full story

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Kerlon]

Re: Breeding Season

Besides of course, the incentive that you actually like making games and actually want to complete your game.
(And if you're going for money, the incentive to complete your game so you can sell it, which will make you ten times more than any Patreon campaign ever would.)

If you are an honest person that loves creating games, then sure you try to finish your game asap. But frankly the scammers will always be there and get away with more money than the honest ones.
Akabur took a long ass time to finish PT:G. He was making 10k dollars/month before he released anything in 1 year. After he was done and released PT:G his patreon money dropped slowly to 7,5k.
YummiTiger, the more time he needs, the more he delays and misses his own deadlines, the more patreon he gets - it's insane. I'm not implying YT is a scammer, since he runs pledges per content, but he can confirm it that his patreon numbers are growing without him releasing anything.

 

[censuur]

Re: Breeding Season

AsdfAnon, Capid. Both of you would be wise to reserve your judgement until you have the proper information to pass it.

You have two people telling you whatever they want to tell you and neither of them have provided any actual evidence to their claims. Chat logs, contracts, emails and more are all tools they have to prove their side of the story and they have both been remiss in providing any. Considering the financial interests involved in this debacle you'd think that'd be the first thing they would do.

If nothing else, both these people are extremely incompetent and of highly dubious morality (both of them, yes, BOTH of them have a history of abandoning projects with little notice or justification)

The main thing to consider here is that the collapse of the project as a whole seems to coincide all too conveniently with the resignation of their lead animator (who left, allegedly, due to an absurdly disproportionate workload, she left without much drama so I see little reason to doubt her account either.)

Regardless of who you'll choose to believe, just be damn well aware that neither of these people have provided any evidence to their claims (evidence they DEFINITELY have available to them) and neither of them have given you the full story.

And Settlers, holy shit that video is dumb as fuck, I'm not even going to mince words here, spreading third-hand accounts and passing them as some sort of fact is at best incredibly misleading, and that's glossing over the extreme sloth and opportunism they show by not verifying their sources and just talking bullshit about something they clearly know little about. Clickbait, is the term I was looking for.

 

[Capid]

Re: Breeding Season

Oh, don't misunderstand, I don't think there is an innocent side in this, H-Bomb was quite content pretty much lacking any images for two years while making a fat amount of money.

And if S-purple got around 190k like he claims, so did he. Honestly, if I made almost 200k$ for a project that didn't got out of very early alpha due to lack of any images whatsoever, I'd call it a good result.

We do have chat logs, and in those you can read S-purple demanding for the patreon campaign to stop as long as any of his assets were still in the game, and then a blunt refusal (in answer to a rude request) to sell those assets.
Also, S-purple admits that they wanted to keep the previous situation for a while longer before breaking like they did, and the only reason it has happened now is because of a leak (most likely someone who knew of all this and grew a conscience)

...Who the hell makes a contract that gives the employee full rights over their results?

Goddamnit, 295 patrons and 1195$ already, this guy is part of a team who got a lot of money before bailing and closing shop without doing anything worthwhile, please, if you have money to spare, support those who return your trust with results.

 

[LolUMad]

Re: Breeding Season

Damn I almost pledged that project, it's a good thing I pledged Divine Arms instead...

Sad to hear tho, it was promising and I was following the project since their beginning on the LoK forum. I can't believe they went so far on patreon and even gathered so much patrons ... all for nothing

It is a good day to not to be

 

[kittenmittens]

Re: Breeding Season

The one I feel bad for in all this is Vanilly. AKA the only one that seemed to be doing anything at all in this project. Even if S hadn't flaked out they were doomed the moment Vanilly tendered her resignation, their progress would've gone from slow to nonexistent.

 

[Fuana is cute]

Re: Breeding Season

The one I feel bad for in all this is Vanilly. AKA the only one that seemed to be doing anything at all in this project. Even if S hadn't flaked out they were doomed the moment Vanilly tendered her resignation, their progress would've gone from slow to nonexistent.

Yeah, she was best girl, like her work also.

 

[Omnikuken]

Re: Breeding Season

Not trying to be the "doom and gloom" guy, but it might be a good idea to close off this topic in the near future .......

On the basis the game got canceled/patreon closed.

 

[YummyTiger]

Re: Breeding Season

YummiTiger, the more time he needs, the more he delays and misses his own deadlines, the more patreon he gets - it's insane. I'm not implying YT is a scammer, since he runs pledges per content, but he can confirm it that his patreon numbers are growing without him releasing anything.

This is a very simple way of looking at it though. I retain patrons even through mistakes like missed release dates because I run a pledged method that allows me to do that. Missed release dates don't hold the same weight when you're not paying every month.

Additionally, my Patreon stays active all the time. I post at least once per week, often more. I do a variety of things to get patrons involved and listen to feedback and make changes. I respond to most comments and interact with my patrons. In the end, it has built me a lot of loyalty from them that they trust me not to screw them over. Add in, that the way I have things setup, it would be almost impossible for me to screw them over monetarily.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that even with things going slowly, I believe I've shown people how much I care about the project. So, it might not be as "crazy" as you think that I continue to gain patrons in light of my missed release dates.

I never pledged to Breeding Season, so I don't know how active they were, but comparing anything related to Breeding Season to my Patreon is pretty damn unfair. I've ran one pledge in over 18 months of work, which adds up to getting paid about $1.35 per hour, when I did a quick calculation the other day.

 

[Cappy]

Re: Breeding Season

Personally I've always thought that patreon type models were more likely to earn money for quality games than straight up sold copies due to the ridiculously effective nature of fan marketing, and how heavily the effect is intensified when there's a free version available that people don't have to find a pirate-link for.

Pretty much all of the most famous western porn games were either free, or only became famous after being distributed for free against the IP-owner's will, and inevitably that's met with at least some guaranteed success so long as, you know, you're actually making the game. (Hell, I think by now we can all agree that you needn't even necessarily bother making that much a game as long as it LOOKs like it could be good on the surface)

 

[HentaiWriter]

Re: Breeding Season

Personally I've always thought that patreon type models were more likely to earn money for quality games than straight up sold copies due to the ridiculously effective nature of fan marketing, and how heavily the effect is intensified when there's a free version available that people don't have to find a pirate-link for.

Pretty much all of the most famous western porn games were either free, or only became famous after being distributed for free against the IP-owner's will, and inevitably that's met with at least some guaranteed success so long as, you know, you're actually making the game. (Hell, I think by now we can all agree that you needn't even necessarily bother making that much a game as long as it LOOKs like it could be good on the surface)

That's gonna change a lot though now that Nutaku has a shop, and MangaGamer and JAST are taking non-VNs in their shops (allowing a wide breadth more of games), so that's a huge amount of extra exposure for games, etc.

 

[dumai12]

Re: Breeding Season

Good grief, can't say I'm surprised. My enthusiasm for this game was dying over the years, so while sort of disappointing...I'm just "meh" right now. I was one of the first supporters for their project on patreon, and progressively lowered my "donations" as content simply was never being released...or even cut. I'm also one of many that liked the original iteration of the game on LoK. A lot of the content they added later on, especially some of the art direction, was very off putting. Far less popular fetishes (I'll not specify so as to not step on any toes) seemed to be prioritized over what used to be it's core attraction. It's primarily this game, and to a lesser extent Akabur's patreon, that really made me distrust the majority of patreon projects.

 

[omp1234]

Re: Breeding Season

If you take anything out of this, take note that if you're going to form a legally binding contract with someone, especially if money is changing hands, at least TRY to consult a legal professional on the matter.

 

[Reepyr]

Re: Breeding Season

I'm also one of many that liked the original iteration of the game on LoK. A lot of the content they added later on, especially some of the art direction, was very off putting.

Yep, same for me. The shift from the original work, while possibly more polished, just didn't work for me. I don't know that they would have ever really released anything, but it still sucks to have it end the way it (supposedly) did.

 

[Kerlon]

Re: Breeding Season

I've ran one pledge in over 18 months of work, which adds up to getting paid about $1.35 per hour, when I did a quick calculation the other day.

Didn't you receive 7k dollar? that divided by $1.35 makes 5158 hours, which means you worked on average 9 hours every day, for 18 months on your game. I am sorry but I have a hard time believing this.
Also on 4chan you are speaking of $0.35 per hour for the last 18 months, which would blew up my calculation even more.

 

[DerPeter]

Re: Breeding Season

Here is S' complete response:

You must be registered to see the links

My opinion on this matter is this: It is still majorly S' fault.
In his post he decribes quite detailed the shortcomings of H, which there are plenty of.
He also tries to invalidate some arguments H himself and other Anons have made. He says, for example, that he didn't turn his back on everyone but just H, since all the other teammembers wanted to leave as well. He also says that he didn't confront H, since H was the one having control over the Patreon money.

I picked those two points, which he stressed time and again in his post, because I think it shows how S wants to create an reality for himself, in which he is completely justified to do what he has done.

It goes without saying that I am of a different opinion. The fact that all the other teammembers wanted to jump ship as well isn't a justification for what S has done, but showcases that S himself didn't intend to do something about the reasons that led to the decision of his teammembers.

He defends himself for not doing anything with the argument that H had all the power, something that is blatantly untrue, given the situation we're in.

He could've formed up with the rest of the team against H, pressuring him to step down as team leader, hiring a project manager and giving said manager control over the funds, by threatening H to unanimously leaving BS and pulling the art if he doesn't comply.
That would leave H with the decision between killing the project and being framed by all the other teammembers as being responsible, or to comply, step down and atleast get some credit and some money out of it.

But instead he chose to stay as long as possible and as soon as everything seemed to fall apart, he worked on his own little escape plan, while leaving everyone else guessing, which, despite his claim that the game was done for since everyone wanted to leave anyways, put the final nail in the coffin, which can be seen in Vanilly's statement, which says that on top of H's fuckery, there was no lead from the art department as well.

To put it figuratively: H was the shackles that held the project down, but S was the one who didn't do anything about it and the one who ultimatively ripped the project apart.

 

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

Re: Breeding Season

So, I've been mulling over this entire thing for a few days, watching as people post and weigh-in their opinions while still contributing to the cancerous concept of patreon developers who do little to nothing or don't adequately reward their funders but fuck 'em because those devs have their money. It still baffles me that, following this fiasco, that of Star Citizen, and the let-down that was Mighty No. 9, you people still blindly contribute to people like Deva and others like you're getting something. Hey, maybe you are, but it feels like nobody has learned a damn thing.

So...

I wrote a wall of text explaining the stock market and how patreon/KS relate. Unfortunately, I'd have people like Deva jump on it with "You don't know anything, this is how we eat!" bullshit, so I scrapped the entire post to make this sweet and simple. You know how indie devs outside the porn community eat? They take a part-time job and eat beans out of a can. They use patreon money properly to purchase assets, art, etc LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO! If half the people making English porn games went to an investors meeting and said "I need 10k/month to eat, afford rent, buy hygiene products, etc while I make this game" you're getting your ass kicked out and laughed at by that group of rich cunts. And you know why? Because they made their money on people who said "I need this much money to improve the product I am selling."

Think about that for a moment.

I get that there are a bunch of developers who aren't quite as scummy on here, and I applaud you. I honestly think you guys are the real struggling developers who people should be throwing their money (wisely) at, and not these "i-it's my job!" kiddies. If it's your job, then why aren't you making 50k/year as a professional developer? Might be because your business model would make even Todd Howard say "No, that's a piece of shit, get out."

So, before some developers who probably live in San Francisco or the WC rush in to "correct" me, consider Breeding Season, Mighty No. 9, Star Citizen, and many of the other projects that have failed before them; and ask yourself if maybe, just maybe you're wrong and need to stop.