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Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?


mayaktheunholy

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

Taking down the thread was a tad overkill. Removing links to things would have sufficed while putting a warning about the makers more shady practice would have served better in my opinion.
I would actually agree with this to some extent. They could have simply locked the thread and allowed people to copy what was useful into a new, "discussion only" thread like this one. But we aren't mods and it's not our decision. And we haven't seen all the evidence they have.

As most Patreon games go, I don't consider it a bad investment myself but will be on guard due to information gather here, but frankly $1 is not a huge loss so risk is minor at best. Many other Patreon titles expect $10-$15 for access to a current demo of a game but not this one and the free version is pretty meaty as is. Only thing higher costs on the Patreon adds seems to be clothing and visual appearances and perhaps a birthing mechanic for a certain monster.
Maybe someone should get it and conduct our own investigation? I just think there has to be more to it than the RoL sprites. Banning 2 people and deleting the thread is a pretty drastic step.

Edit:
Pretty funny that the Breeding Season thread was never shut down with clear evidence that the dev had stolen money from people and bailed for months at a time. He comes back and adds stuff he'd already been paid for/promised to Patreon goals and steals more money from people. Cloud Meadow would be just as questionable if not moreso than Cursed Armor with the way it used its art/animation, but it's still up too.
That is part of the reason I think there is more to it. Or maybe it's just that nobody reported the other games?
 
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nightshad

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

He had plenty of time to defend himself on LoversLab and he didn't forther more, he didnt tell anyone on umlf that he was accessed of selling material he shouldn't be selling, he should have said something or at least give us the reason for this, instead he chose to ignore it. he basically ameted to doing what he is accused off. why shouldn't his patron link be removed? the reason breeding season wasn't taken down was it was news to everyone what happened cause someone from there dev said so.

what the aurthor of cursed armor did over at LL is inexcusable! were we suppose to ignore that? especially when money was involved?

someone told me that on his patron page it said he makes 33k a month on his curse game. should he been more involved in what he was doing with the money? seems to me he took it an ran?
 
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mayaktheunholy

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

As long as we are speculating, I thought of something that would explain the whole situation, including why they won't discuss it or show the proof. And it has nothing to do with RoL/AoG.

Consider this:
The game uses commissioned artwork for the HCGs. As in wolfzq claims to have paid someone to make the artwork for his game.

There are different kinds of artist commissions. Generally: Those for private use only, those that are okay for public use, and those that can be resold (commercial use).

What may have happened is that he commissioned that art, and led the artist to believe it was for private (or even public but free) use, but then charged money for it. The reason being art not intended for resale would be much cheaper and/or the artist wouldn't do royalty free work at all.

If you want to take this theory one step further, maybe this artist (or artists) is the one who contacted admin and told them "this guy is using my work illegally and here is proof. I don't want this on public display, do not repost my material."

Just a theory of course, but it would explain everything.
 

FruitSmoothie

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

He had plenty of time to defend himself on LoversLab and he didn't he basically ammeted to doing what he is accused off. why shouldnt his patron link be removed? the reason breeding season wasn't taken down was it was news to everyone what happened cause someone from there dev said so.

what the aurthor of cursed armor did over at LL is inexcusable! were we suppose to ignore that?
No, not ignore it, warn people about it so they can make their own decision like adults.

Your whole pitch so far is that there were problems with his previous project so we should shut down all his current and future shit. You have never shown any evidence of any wrongdoing with Cursed Armor. We're saying the thread shouldn't have just been deleted because of a previous project for various reasons:

1. That opens up almost anybody to have issues here. If people can have their threads shut down/be banned based solely on their past, that's a threat to everybody. Anybody could go through your history and find something questionable to dismiss you based on. I doubt the mods are being malicious or anything, but that doesn't mean that it still can't hurt people, that doesn't mean that it can't hurt you or me.

Too many people are shortsighted and think: "Oh, as long as it doesn't happen to me, it's okay", but put yourself in the shoes of somebody that gets banned here in the way wolf was. Maybe he was an asshole and maybe it was justified, but there's no proof of that on Cursed Armor. There's still the chance that he was completely legit with his current project as well until evidence shows otherwise. This thread removal/ban is not the type of thing I ever wanted to see this site do.

2. It makes things difficult here for people who decide that supporting his project is worth the risk. We're all (Hopefully) adults here. I believe if people wanna do drugs and you aren't responsible for other people's lives, go for it. It's your life to ruin. Shutting this shit down and telling people that they can't decide for themselves is fucked up in my opinion.

Tired of sounding like a broken record here, but it shouldn't be difficult to understand that judging somebody solely on their past isn't fair, correct? Warn people in the thread that he was a shitter in the past, and let them spend their money how they want. All you'd have to do is prove that there were problems with Cursed Armor and I'd be all on board (Though the thread removal may still be overkill depending on the severity.).

As long as we are speculating, I thought of something that would explain the whole situation, including why they won't discuss it or show the proof. And it has nothing to do with RoL/AoG.

Consider this:
The game uses commissioned artwork for the HCGs. As in wolfzq claims to have paid someone to make the artwork for his game.

There are different kinds of artist commissions. Generally: Those for private use only, those that are okay for public use, and those that can be resold (commercial use).

What may have happened is that he commissioned that art, and led the artist to believe it was for private (or even public but free) use, but then charged money for it. The reason being art not intended for resale would be much cheaper and/or the artist wouldn't do royalty free work at all.

If you want to take this theory one step further, maybe this artist (or artists) is the one who contacted admin and told them "this guy is using my work illegally and here is proof. I don't want this on public display, do not repost my material."

Just a theory of course, but it would explain everything.
Who would be upset with an artist for not wanting their art used in a way that they weren't okay with? It's a theory but I don't really understand the thought process, lol. Why not just try to shut down the whole project or have their art removed instead? Shutting down just the ulmf stuff isn't going to hurt his profit much or stop him from using the art. If anything, pretty sure Patreon would shut his ass down in an instant if you can prove an issue with his game. Wouldn't even need to bother here.
 
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nightshad

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

No, not ignore it, warn people about it so they can make their own decision like adults.

Your whole pitch so far is that there were problems with his previous project so we should shut down all his current and future shit. You have never shown any evidence of any wrongdoing with Cursed Armor. We're saying the thread shouldn't have just been deleted because of a previous project for various reasons:

1. That opens up almost anybody to have issues here. If people can have their threads shut down/be banned based solely on their past, that's a threat to everybody. Anybody could go through your history and find something questionable to dismiss you based on. I doubt the mods are being malicious or anything, but that doesn't mean that it still can't hurt people, that doesn't mean that it can't hurt you or me.

Too many people are shortsighted and think: "Oh, as long as it doesn't happen to me, it's okay", but put yourself in the shoes of somebody that gets banned here in the way wolf was. Maybe he was an asshole and maybe it was justified, but there's no proof of that. There's still the chance that he was completely legit with his current project as well until evidence shows otherwise. This thread removal/ban is not the type of thing I ever wanted to see this site do.

2. It makes things difficult here for people who decide that supporting his project is worth the risk. We're all (Hopefully) adults here. I believe if people wanna do drugs and you aren't responsible for other people's lives, go for it. It's your life to ruin. Shutting this shit down and telling people that they can't decide for themselves is fucked up in my opinion.

Tired of sounding like a broken record here, but it shouldn't be difficult to understand that judging somebody solely on their past isn't fair, correct? Warn people in the thread that he was a shitter in the past, and let them spend their money how they want. All you'd have to do is prove that there were problems with Cursed Armor and I'd be all on board (Though the thread removal may still be overkill depending on the severity.).



Who would be upset with an artist for not wanting their art used in a way that they weren't okay with? It's a theory but I don't really understand the thought process, lol. Why not just try to shut down the whole project or have their art removed instead? Shutting down just the ulmf stuff isn't going to hurt his profit much or stop him from using the art.
it was taken down because of information about wolf that warrant the take down. they wont ban someone based on hearsay, you know this and i know this. enough evidence was brought to them and they made the choice to do that. wither there was any wrong in the game or not. letting people pay him knowing what he done wasn't right. it was rewarding him for lying about his previous issues. sounded to me he knew what he was doing was wrong and didn't give a shit about it. he should have come clean about it and he didnt, being honest when it comes to money should be more important then someone's personal feellings.
 
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FruitSmoothie

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

it was taken down because of information about wolf that warrant the take down. they wont ban someone based on hearsay, you know this and i know this. enough evidence was brought to them and they made the choice to do that.
No, I don't know this. I don't know the mods personally and even if I did, that doesn't mean that they're some infallible good guys that are incapable of doing anything wrong, either out of laziness, maliciousness, accidentally, whatever. We're all human. Blindly trusting "authorities" or anybody is a real easy way to be manipulated and controlled. If it seems like I'm being hostile towards you or them, I'm not, just stating facts. Not appreciating you trying to force your view on me though.

Show proof of problems with the Cursed Armor project, or deal with the fact that I'm not going to blindly trust the mods decision. Those are the two endings here, lol. Not like I'm even demanding anything, just hoping you/they respect that I'm not going to take the ruling on blind faith alone. I'm fine enough dropping this, just going to be more careful about the mod's decisions in the future is all.

Welcome to the new ulmf, where you can be banned and have your thread destroyed without any evidence of wrongdoings being given, I guess, lol.
 
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The Lurkers Shadow

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

He had plenty of time to defend himself on LoversLab and he didn't forther more, he didnt tell anyone on umlf that he was accessed of selling material he shouldn't be selling, he should have said something or at least give us the reason for this, instead he chose to ignore it. he basically ameted to doing what he is accused off. why shouldn't his patron link be removed? the reason breeding season wasn't taken down was it was news to everyone what happened cause someone from there dev said so.

what the aurthor of cursed armor did over at LL is inexcusable! were we suppose to ignore that? especially when money was involved?

someone told me that on his patron page it said he makes 33k a month on his curse game. should he been more involved in what he was doing with the money? seems to me he took it an ran?
At current the cursed armor game is $3,000 a month so your off by a digit. As for defending himself I mean more his current work not his past works which he can't really defend, it clearly was shady practices. It would have been nice if he gave everyone fair warning about his more questionable actions in the past, but very few people will do something like that willingly. I'm sure any past mistake you might have made in your life you won't bring up unless someone made it known or questioned you about it either, although if you are the type to face up to your mistakes and let them be known without being questioned on it that would be a strong plus to your character, however I don't know your exact character so that is just speculative.

On to breeding season that was a colossal fuck you to people sadly I saw it coming early on, almost wish I never made the thread for it now. I did a calculation as to how many animations would be needed at the current time to complete all the current monsters line up and it was pretty hefty, we are talking Mario is missing hefty, then the creator kept adding more and more monsters more forms of same monster neoteny, feral, futa and gender swap it was bloating more and more it would have taken over 500 or maybe even more positions and animations to complete. The dev probably also realized this but rather than shut down he built up his funds then done a runner first. Smoothie is just pointing out that wolfzq got tossed and his thread removed for frankly far less than what the breeding season dev did, so it's just very odd to us without the same evidence the admin was presented with.

As for what wolfzq did over at lovers lab, yes, you are right it is inexcusable what he did there, but if everything is above board with cursed armor why should his more legitimate? work be nailed down because he fucked up royal in the past. Some people do deserve another shot at doing something the proper way and to learn from past mistakes. However, if he is following in his past footsteps and using other peoples work and claiming it as his own as well as expecting payment for it, it needs to be known with solid proof so that others won't support such actions any further.

On a side note, it could also be someone claiming its their work but is lying out their ass too. Those who follow Project X have seen this happen with someone trying to claim that their work was stolen using screen shots of modded gameplay. So we need to be wary of that kind of thing too.

@Mayak That is a pretty solid theory and would make a lot of sense if that is the case as to why the thread got tossed while something like breeding season wasn't.
 
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nightshad

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

Right i just did a quick look at his patron page and i found something he wrote.

這次的事件由于我關注ulmf比較少,等到問題出現時,我朋友的發帖號已經被鎖了,之后我用我的號去跟管理交涉,他們說我的在loverlab關于cursed armor的帖子有侵權行為,并且有依靠侵權行為牟利的行為,所以,如果我無法舉證我不是那個wolfzq(而不是那些東西沒有侵權牟利),就封我賬號并且永遠不允許cursed armor 進入umlf。

之后我回應,

1、我的RPG中沒有任何侵權行為,所有東西都是自己研發或者有授權的。

2、我在loverlab放出的patreon宣傳帖是1年前的,其中有一些圖片本身是希望引導玩家來看看眾籌網站,其中圖片的內容都沒有放出,因為上古4最終我停止了開發,所以也不存在牟利。

3、就算我上古4我的行為對loverlab造成了危害,但RPG并沒有對umlf造成任何危害,為什么loverlab不封我上古4的帖,umlf卻要封我RPG的帖,甚至還做出了鎖我賬號的惡意行為?!

當我發完這些信息后,umlf沒有給我任何回信,之后我的賬號就被鎖了,從前文中,只能理解我是wolfzq所以就要封……那么,這種行為真的好嗎?這樣的論壇值得玩家追捧嗎?我開始懷疑了……

UMLF是一個專業論壇,是一個在玩家心中舉足輕重的論壇,但是,這么一個專業論壇卻因為極少數玩家的惡意攻擊,而選擇將一個正在撅起的,有獨立版權的游戲進行封殺,甚至不給機會整改,就因為某些玩家對這個制作人以前的錯誤行為不滿,而招致終生驅逐?試問論壇是服務10個玩家中的9個,還是滿足那1個在多數人都認為過激的玩家?

Translaton

On ulmf lock me and my friend's account, and delete the message of the statement I am not good English, so afraid to use the English will be ambiguous, I first said in Chinese

I am not good in English, so I am afraid that there will be ambiguous in English, I first said in Chinese

This time because of my concern ulmf less, until the problem occurs, my friend's posting number has been locked, and then I use my number to deal with the negotiations, they said my loverlab on the post of cursed armor infringement , And there are acts that rely on infringement for profit, so if I can not prove that I am not the wolfzq (not those things that are not infringing for profit), it closes my account and never allows cursed armor to enter umlf.

After I responded,

1、I do not have any infringement of RPG, all things are their own research and development or authorized.

2、I am in loverlab release patreon propaganda post is a year ago, which some of the picture itself is to guide the players to look at the crowd, which the contents of the picture did not release, because the ancient 4 eventually I stopped the development, so do not There is profit.

3、Even if my ancient 4 my behavior on the loverlab caused harm, but the RPG did not cause any harm to umlf, why loverlab not sealed my last 4 posts, umlf have to call me RPG posts, and even made a lock my account Malicious behavior? The

When I finished this information, umlf did not give me any reply, then my account was locked, from the previous text, can only understand that I was wolfzq so it is necessary to seal ... ... So, this behavior really okay? Such a forum worthy of the players sought after? I started to doubt ...

UMLF is a professional forum, is a player in the hearts of the pivotal forum, but such a professional forum because of a very small number of players malicious attacks, and choose to be a pout, independent copyright of the game to ban, or even do not give Opportunity rectification, because some players on the producer of the previous wrong behavior dissatisfaction, and lead to lifelong expulsion? How can the forum serve 9 of 10 players, or is it a player who is considered too radical in most people?

even if his action were harmful. but it did harm umlf! it brought dout like i said he ammets what he did.
 
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nightshad

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

That is the post I put up earlier. Post #33.
WOOPS sorry buddy my memories is kind of fucked up >< medical thing im dealing with. sorry :3 but here is the thing. he claiming the game is all his! but its not! i think that alone speaks valume

didnt he said something about making the game from scratch and now im reading something else. from him? what going on here?
 
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The Lurkers Shadow

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

WOOPS sorry buddy my memories is kind of fucked up >< medical thing im dealing with. sorry :3 but here is the thing. he claiming the game is all his! but its not! i think that alone speaks valume

didnt he said something about making the game from scratch and now im reading something else. from him? what going on here?
Perhaps saying "making it from scratch" was a poor choice of words on his part, but yes, we can't ignore the red flags that pop up but the game as far as I saw, did not directly hurt ULMF while it was here.

No problem on the post, I don't expect people to read, let alone remember something from about half a thread ago.
 

mayaktheunholy

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

Who would be upset with an artist for not wanting their art used in a way that they weren't okay with? It's a theory but I don't really understand the thought process, lol. Why not just try to shut down the whole project or have their art removed instead? Shutting down just the ulmf stuff isn't going to hurt his profit much or stop him from using the art. If anything, pretty sure Patreon would shut his ass down in an instant if you can prove an issue with his game. Wouldn't even need to bother here.
I probably didn't word it very well, I was trying to keep it short. :p

Maybe they -have- tried to shut down the whole project, but got no response from Patreon? Or their complaint process takes a long time? Or maybe Patreon doesn't give a shit because they are making money and don't think the copyright holder (or whatever) would have the financial means to take them to court? Again, just a theory, but it would fit what has happened.

Edit: And I am in no way saying to blindly trust the mod/admin who did this, I have no knowledge of, or dealing with, that particular mod/admin (didn't even know they were an admin). The only mod I've ever personally talked to is Darkfire.

Edit2:
On a side note, it could also be someone claiming its their work but is lying out their ass too. Those who follow Project X have seen this happen with someone trying to claim that their work was stolen using screen shots of modded gameplay. So we need to be wary of that kind of thing too.
This is entirely possible as well. I just wonder what "evidence" they presented if this is the case.

Edit3: Just thought of something. In regards to his statement that LL didn't do anything about his previous activities, that is not entirely true. His second mod, the one he was charging money for, does not have a thread on LL. Because their policy has always been "no paid mods". I don't recall whether there was a thread and it was taken down, or if one was simply never started, but his trying to act like they knew and did nothing is not true. The original mod's thread is still up as he didn't try to charge money for it, up to a point. I want to say he did later, but I could be wrong, just going from memory.
 
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Nimrod

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

Not true at all. Wolfzq is in China. Who knows what country the original creators are in. It's likely not even possible for them to pursue legal action. Even if they did, it would likely be beyond their financial means to do so. That's like saying if someone was raped and they didn't press charges, that means it's okay that they were raped.

Again no offense, it's human nature to be biased. But it seems like those who are defending this guy really have their rose colored glasses on. I mean, some of you are fishing for conspiracy theories rather than believe your sacred cow has done anything wrong.
No offense taken. You make a fair point about not being able to charge, but then again people are assuming what the RoL creator thinks to make a case. I have this faint memory from way back when on hongfire about someone saying the guy didn't mind that his sprites were being used by others, but I'm not gonna argue on third hand information to extrapolate someone's intentions. It's like everybody is using this person as a hand puppet, to say what they want. This person may or may not have a problem with the current situation, but my guess is that, if he's not dead yet, he's probably moved on with his life, and doesn't care much about someone using small pieces of a hobby project he made ages ago for fun, and if he doesn't care, I don't care. It's as good a possibility as any other, nobody even knows the guy.

Also I didn't say that wolfzq didn't do anything wrong, but Courage said there were legal issues, and there are only legal issues when there are legal actions ongoing, and there's no evidence that there is something illegal about cursed armor aside from someone saying that a guy, they never met or talked to, could probably be annoyed about something he might not even care about.

It's more of a matter of scope, what's the crime here?
Your rape example is reasonable in a moral context that considers rape a crime, which for example is not really the case in Pakistan, or most of India depending on caste. But they would cut your limbs if you steal an apple. Morality and legality are not the same thing, you're being just a tiny bit unfair here.
For one thing there's no law that says you can be charged for stealing something that is being given to you for free. So at best the crime here is plagiarism, which is a completely different beast than theft. But then again, who's been plagiarized here?
The character itself was not even an original creation back in RoL, and I really wonder if anyone asked Yuichiro Shinozaki what he thinks about this whole debacle. Google-fu FTW!
To top this off, as I've been saying this whole time, the amount of content, that is not original or properly commissioned, would still count as transformative under fair use. We would not be able to create new music otherwise, since all the notes are already taken. Despite what multinational powerhouses think about what they can own.

The real problem here is that we are talking bullshit about something minor on the basis of a past mistake that was actually bad, and conflating the two things as if they are one and the same, just because it's the same person doing both. Which is not a good behavior in general. I've done some dumb shit when I was a dumb kid, and you did too, everyone makes choices they eventually regret. If you deny it I find no problem in punching the denial out of you, but if you can admit what you did was wrong, and prove you want to better yourself by doing things properly, my moral code tells me to give you a second chance. Just to be clear, a second chance doesn't mean trust.

Seen people talk about shady behavior on patreon, and to them I say that everybody is being shady on patreon lately. Most projects have slowed down so much their cardio rate could fool death itself. I could make a list but I don't want to set the world on fire since it would include many "beloved" developers too. At the very least wolfzq is giving something other than promises for the money he gets.

what the aurthor of cursed armor did over at LL is inexcusable! were we suppose to ignore that? especially when money was involved?
You make it sound like he killed someone, it's just copyright for fuck's sake, at worst you get a fine. I don't want you to ignore anything, on the contrary, I want you to remember more. Remember that this forum is filled with pirates, sharing for free or profit stuff that someone is actually trying to sell. I want you to remember that every link shared here is potentially costing money to someone. Remember that the person you are trying to paint as a child eating monster is not really that different than the rest of us.

As some random dude once said "let him who is without sin cast the first stone"!

I'm gonna respectfully disagree with an admin's decision, but I think all this animosity is unnecessary, and frankly I have not much respect for someone going after a person's livelihood based on just a grudge, since as far as I know, not a single person on loverslab lost a dime on this. The only thing that got hurt here is someone's ego.
 

nightshad

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

No offense taken. You make a fair point about not being able to charge, but then again people are assuming what the RoL creator thinks to make a case. I have this faint memory from way back when on hongfire about someone saying the guy didn't mind that his sprites were being used by others, but I'm not gonna argue on third hand information to extrapolate someone's intentions. It's like everybody is using this person as a hand puppet, to say what they want. This person may or may not have a problem with the current situation, but my guess is that, if he's not dead yet, he's probably moved on with his life, and doesn't care much about someone using small pieces of a hobby project he made ages ago for fun, and if he doesn't care, I don't care. It's as good a possibility as any other, nobody even knows the guy.

Also I didn't say that wolfzq didn't do anything wrong, but Courage said there were legal issues, and there are only legal issues when there are legal actions ongoing, and there's no evidence that there is something illegal about cursed armor aside from someone saying that a guy, they never met or talked to, could probably be annoyed about something he might not even care about.

It's more of a matter of scope, what's the crime here?
Your rape example is reasonable in a moral context that considers rape a crime, which for example is not really the case in Pakistan, or most of India depending on caste. But they would cut your limbs if you steal an apple. Morality and legality are not the same thing, you're being just a tiny bit unfair here.
For one thing there's no law that says you can be charged for stealing something that is being given to you for free. So at best the crime here is plagiarism, which is a completely different beast than theft. But then again, who's been plagiarized here?
The character itself was not even an original creation back in RoL, and I really wonder if anyone asked Yuichiro Shinozaki what he thinks about this whole debacle. Google-fu FTW!
To top this off, as I've been saying this whole time, the amount of content, that is not original or properly commissioned, would still count as transformative under fair use. We would not be able to create new music otherwise, since all the notes are already taken. Despite what multinational powerhouses think about what they can own.

The real problem here is that we are talking bullshit about something minor on the basis of a past mistake that was actually bad, and conflating the two things as if they are one and the same, just because it's the same person doing both. Which is not a good behavior in general. I've done some dumb shit when I was a dumb kid, and you did too, everyone makes choices they eventually regret. If you deny it I find no problem in punching the denial out of you, but if you can admit what you did was wrong, and prove you want to better yourself by doing things properly, my moral code tells me to give you a second chance. Just to be clear, a second chance doesn't mean trust.

Seen people talk about shady behavior on patreon, and to them I say that everybody is being shady on patreon lately. Most projects have slowed down so much their cardio rate could fool death itself. I could make a list but I don't want to set the world on fire since it would include many "beloved" developers too. At the very least wolfzq is giving something other than promises for the money he gets.



You make it sound like he killed someone, it's just copyright for fuck's sake, at worst you get a fine. I don't want you to ignore anything, on the contrary, I want you to remember more. Remember that this forum is filled with pirates, sharing for free or profit stuff that someone is actually trying to sell. I want you to remember that every link shared here is potentially costing money to someone. Remember that the person you are trying to paint as a child eating monster is not really that different than the rest of us.

As some random dude once said "let him who is without sin cast the first stone"!

I'm gonna respectfully disagree with an admin's decision, but I think all this animosity is unnecessary, and frankly I have not much respect for someone going after a person's livelihood based on just a grudge, since as far as I know, not a single person on loverslab lost a dime on this. The only thing that got hurt here is someone's ego.
what grudge? members gave him money on the pretense that he was being honest. he wasn't, your saying its not our problem. selling someone else work claiming it as there own and then linking to here is a problem for us. thats the other reason the thread was taken down. he done it before and even said he did and didn't care. i got a serious problem with that. that make it look like we steal peoples art and sale it as our own and we condone it. is that how you want us to appear? its only copyright so what? we shouldn't put up with that here. members do sale work here legetitamly are you saying its ok that the site there on is accused of what wolf did? i think they have a problem with that.

should wolf be aloud to sale work not his claiming that it IS his work and ALL his work? you saying we should let him do that knowing he didnt making the art but is selling it as his own? you really ok with that?

someone knew he was doing this and had proof he was, you saying they should have kept there mouth shut?
 
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mayaktheunholy

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

No offense taken. You make a fair point about not being able to charge, but then again people are assuming what the RoL creator thinks to make a case. I have this faint memory from way back when on hongfire about someone saying the guy didn't mind that his sprites were being used by others, but I'm not gonna argue on third hand information to extrapolate someone's intentions. It's like everybody is using this person as a hand puppet, to say what they want. This person may or may not have a problem with the current situation, but my guess is that, if he's not dead yet, he's probably moved on with his life, and doesn't care much about someone using small pieces of a hobby project he made ages ago for fun, and if he doesn't care, I don't care. It's as good a possibility as any other, nobody even knows the guy.
First, glad you didn't take offense as that was definitely not my intention. And I am not offended myself, hopefully it doesn't sound that way.

I've never said the RoL/AoG sprites were the issue. Honestly I don't think they are, (and my memories of that are pretty vague too) I think it's something else. I'm also not saying we should punish the guy for his past actions. But he was doing those things for years. I would sooner take the word of a stranger than someone who I know has been blatantly dishonest for years.

One other aside here, I think the second mod, the one he was charging money for, was taken down from all sources. Indicating he did get into legal trouble with it, or at least those who hosted the content did. (not sure if it's okay to post links to the proof)

It's more of a matter of scope, what's the crime here?
Your rape example is reasonable in a moral context that considers rape a crime, which for example is not really the case in Pakistan, or most of India depending on caste. But they would cut your limbs if you steal an apple. Morality and legality are not the same thing, you're being just a tiny bit unfair here.
I disagree to some extent. Patreon is an American company. Ulmf is a western forum. The laws and morals of western society are most certainly what apply here. Those are the laws that Patreon and the owners of this forum would have to answer to if it went to court.

For one thing there's no law that says you can be charged for stealing something that is being given to you for free. So at best the crime here is plagiarism, which is a completely different beast than theft. But then again, who's been plagiarized here?
Copyright infringement would be the crime if my theory is correct. But this is not the place to argue whether that is "theft". And it wasn't given freely, I was talking about commissioned artwork. And that would not be transformed under fair use since it has not been altered. But of course this is just a theory. The real issue may be something we aren't even aware of.

One more thing, Courage Wolf's post indicates there is more to it than the two issues we've been discussing.

I'm gonna respectfully disagree with an admin's decision, but I think all this animosity is unnecessary, and frankly I have not much respect for someone going after a person's livelihood based on just a grudge, since as far as I know, not a single person on loverslab lost a dime on this.
A little clarification: The earlier fiasco didn't directly involve anyone on loverslab. Japanese modders are the ones who had their content "stolen". That, and paid modding is simply illegal and could have gotten LL in trouble. I don't see where you're getting that this is a grudge. And I don't bear the guy any animosity, I just don't trust him.
 
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nightshad

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

i don't have a grudge against wolf. only what he did and was doing. just thought i put that out there. sorry if i came off as a hateful prek

people have the right to know if there being lied to. dont they?
 

mayaktheunholy

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

Honestly, it's not so much his dishonesty that bothered me, it's his lack of respect.

And to go back to the question of morality in different societies, the modders he did this to back then were Japanese. Disrespecting someone is a pretty serious thing in their society, even more than it is in the west. People like him are the reason a lot of Japanese mods are private.
 

nightshad

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

Honestly, it's not so much his dishonesty that bothered me, it's his lack of respect.

And to go back to the question of morality in different societies, the modders he did this to back then were Japanese. Disrespecting someone is a pretty serious thing in their society, even more than it is in the west. People like him are the reason a lot of Japanese mods are private.

then him getting kicked from the forum was the right thing to do then. we cant have people like him around. its gives us a bad name.
 

Nimrod

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

I disagree to some extent. Patreon is an American company. Ulmf is a western forum. The laws and morals of western society are most certainly what apply here. Those are the laws that Patreon and the owners of this forum would have to answer to if it went to court.
My point was about scope, not places. The idea was that comparing actual rape to copyright infringement on a moral or legal scale is unfair. Let's be realistic, if this forum went to court, wolfzq actions would be the last thing they would have to worry about considering the real legal issues that come from hosting the sharing of pirated content. This is as real a threat as a nazi pug, oh wait, that can actually get you to jail.

A little clarification: The earlier fiasco didn't directly involve anyone on loverslab. Japanese modders are the ones who had their content "stolen". That, and paid modding is simply illegal and could have gotten LL in trouble. I don't see where you're getting that this is a grudge. And I don't bear the guy any animosity, I just don't trust him.
Thank you for the clarification, I blame this on nightshad, I got that from one of his posts I think... ;P

If I take your money, you lose money, you have a real loss, I hurt your livelihood.

If you give me your product for free (releasing something means you are giving it to everyone), and I find a way to make a profit, you don't lose anything (because you were not making a profit).

If I commission work from you, and you agree to be paid a certain amount, than later have an epiphany that you could have asked for more. Capitalism bitch! GIT GUD!!!

The people on patreon don't even count in this, since they are mainly supporting the development of Cursed Armor, so all other allegations don't affect them. They are paying for the game and they are getting the game.

Nobody loses money because of his patreon, it's all about inflated egos and greed. Like third wave feminism!

You see, I don't trust wolfzq, I don't trust courage wolf, I don't trust whoever is providing this proof, I don't trust anyone I don't know personally. So everyone is on the same level to me, nobody's opinion is more valuable, nobody's point of view is completely reliable, everybody makes mistakes, everybody lies, everybody wants to rule the world.
I don't judge the people involved, I care about the fairness of the actions taken, because as fruitsmoothie said, this could happen to me, or you, or anyone else. Because setting precedents is dangerous, and unilateral capital punishment leads to a dystopia, who's next?
Someone on this forum got a cease and desist from an big company, and as far as I know he didn't desist, just made his stuff harder to find. Am I putting his livelihood in trouble by saying this? Is he gonna be targeted next?

Pointing fingers is easy, till someone points their finger at you. So let's make sure we don't persecute people for minor bullshit that should be resolved in a civil manner by the parts involved like adults. Maybe i expect too much from people.

people have the right to know if there being lied to. dont they?
Fair enough, but he admitted he made a mistake, and all other allegations are unconfirmed, and could be themselves lies. Spotting the liar is not that easy.

we can't have people like him around. Its gives us a bad name.
If we were to kick everybody that gives a bad name to a den of pirates sharing hentai games about rape, slavery, underage sex... I'm not even gonna finish this sentence.

And to go back to the question of morality in different societies, the modders he did this to back then were Japanese. Disrespecting someone is a pretty serious thing in their society, even more than it is in the west. People like him are the reason a lot of Japanese mods are private.
Duuude, blaming Japanese developers' nationalistic and xenophobic behaviors on a Chinese dude is wrong on soooo many levels... Like you met a fat chick and you fucked her on an elevator!

(Kudos to anyone who gets all the references! <3)
 

nightshad

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Re: Cursed Armor 1.40 wolfzq thread missing?

My point was about scope, not places. The idea was that comparing actual rape to copyright infringement on a moral or legal scale is unfair. Let's be realistic, if this forum went to court, wolfzq actions would be the last thing they would have to worry about considering the real legal issues that come from hosting the sharing of pirated content. This is as real a threat as a nazi pug, oh wait, that can actually get you to jail.



Thank you for the clarification, I blame this on nightshad, I got that from one of his posts I think... ;P

If I take your money, you lose money, you have a real loss, I hurt your livelihood.

If you give me your product for free (releasing something means you are giving it to everyone), and I find a way to make a profit, you don't lose anything (because you were not making a profit).

If I commission work from you, and you agree to be paid a certain amount, than later have an epiphany that you could have asked for more. Capitalism bitch! GIT GUD!!!

The people on patreon don't even count in this, since they are mainly supporting the development of Cursed Armor, so all other allegations don't affect them. They are paying for the game and they are getting the game.

Nobody loses money because of his patreon, it's all about inflated egos and greed. Like third wave feminism!

You see, I don't trust wolfzq, I don't trust courage wolf, I don't trust whoever is providing this proof, I don't trust anyone I don't know personally. So everyone is on the same level to me, nobody's opinion is more valuable, nobody's point of view is completely reliable, everybody makes mistakes, everybody lies, everybody wants to rule the world.
I don't judge the people involved, I care about the fairness of the actions taken, because as fruitsmoothie said, this could happen to me, or you, or anyone else. Because setting precedents is dangerous, and unilateral capital punishment leads to a dystopia, who's next?
Someone on this forum got a cease and desist from an big company, and as far as I know he didn't desist, just made his stuff harder to find. Am I putting his livelihood in trouble by saying this? Is he gonna be targeted next?

Pointing fingers is easy, till someone points their finger at you. So let's make sure we don't persecute people for minor bullshit that should be resolved in a civil manner by the parts involved like adults. Maybe i expect too much from people.



Fair enough, but he admitted he made a mistake, and all other allegations are unconfirmed, and could be themselves lies. Spotting the liar is not that easy.



If we were to kick everybody that gives a bad name to a den of pirates sharing hentai games about rape, slavery, underage sex... I'm not even gonna finish this sentence.


Duuude, blaming Japanese developers' nationalistic and xenophobic behaviors on a Chinese dude is wrong on soooo many levels... Like you met a fat chick and you fucked her on an elevator!

(Kudos to anyone who gets all the references! <3)
why would you say something like soo . . .

he only did after the fact and only AFTER we caught him doing it. not before. if he was honest upfront none of this shit would have happened but he had go and lie behind people's back that actually gave money to him. its fraud man, no mater how to write, still fraud

im done. i wont speak anymore of this
 
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