A tribute to the nice guys.

[ToxicShock]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

I HATE PEANUTS! I hate the food, I hate the smell, I hate the comic, ...ironically I like peanut butter, BUT I HATE THEM STILL DAMNIT

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

There is no shortage of nice folks without an agenda behind their behavior. Hell, I see nice guys with nice girls (in a relationship) all the time. Sure there are the folks that are only acting, but I more often encounter the genuine deal. Perhaps where I am I dunno.

I even knew a guy who acted like an asshole most of the time... which hid the fact that he was a great husband and father.

So, things like this shout out above though, just don't seem right to me. Because its calling out to a group that I think still gets what this little letter thing claims they don't.

 

[Kusanagi]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

But that's WHY we sell them, Toxic... you don't have to like a product to sell it. Besides, if you're going to get rid of them anyways, might as well make some money off of it, ne?

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

I WILL CRUSH THEM WITH MY FIST OR SOMETHING OTHER THAN MY FIST

 

[Newbie]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

Eh, I don't know. If you're going to go out of your way for recognition you're not really being nice. If you're being nice because someone's got different parts than you and you want to get at them you're not being nice. If you're being nice as a part of some manner of plot, plan, or perfidy, you're not being nice.

I hold the door open for most people, I thank those who hold the door open for me, I let people cut in front of me at vending machines and fast food places if I don't know what I'm getting, I give advice freely and like to think I take criticism well, I do my best to listen, I do my best to help, I do my best to realize when I'd only be in the way and move. I try to only speak when I've got something to say, and I try to not judge people until I have had at least one conversation with them. I do my best to treat people like people instead of tools or objectives. I do not find any of this as extraordinary or meritorious. I think that at best it's common courtesy, and at worst it's utilitarianism. It is in everyone's best interest to treat everyone well because you never know who's help you will need or when, and you don't know who it would be a bad idea to make enemies with. If people feel they need to be recognized for being decent human beings then it's likely they aren't, simple as that.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

Not at all to say it can't be appreciated though. I mean, I wouldn't call myself a nice guy if the umpteenth time that was sent to me I flipped out and said "FUCKING STOP IT! I DON'T EVEN WANT TO BE NICE ANYMORE! I swear by this screwdriver, I'll thrust it through the gums of the next person to send me it."

..then obe posts it here.
Hey obe, is there something in your mouth? C'mere

 

[ShadowWolfSBI]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

"I swear by this screwdriver, I'll thrust it through the gums of the next person to send me it."

Hey obe, is there something in your mouth? C'mere

All medical teams, stand by. Repeat, all medical teams, stand by.

 

[aika]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

My only problem with the whole "poor nice guys never getting the girl they love" thing is kinda raped by the whole "if you act like a good friend, then you're going to forever be a good friend" argument.

Also, they seem to forget that not everyone finds everyone attractive. She doesn't think you're hot. So she's not going to date you. Sorry.

Also, nice guys never ask the girl out. They just seem to expect to be rewarded eventually with sex and possibly marriage in the future when the girl realises who the perfect guy for them is. But they never stick their neck out there and say "I really want to try dating you =)". So it never happens.

As for the girls always seeming to be dating assholes, well that's probably because the assholes have more confidence and ask girls out more than you do.

 

[wallpaper]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

Of course I don't expect all the new people I meet to be trusting enough to completely change in the same room as me, but it has happened before and I haven't taken advantage of that trust...

I'm taking fault with the thinking that taking advantage of someone who's changing in front of you is the norm, and that someone should get recognition because they refrained. That kind of thinking is similar to "well, women should watch what they wear because if they're dressed in revealing clothing, of course some men won't be able to refrain from raping her!"

Unfortunately, that kind of thinking gets ingrained into people of either gender (assuming that we're not even going into speaking outside of gender dichotomies here) and women are trained not to trust men to be able to change in the same room at once, so it's a pain in the ass on both sides...

Newbie, I take no fault with what you're saying -- it's a decent thing to do to be polite. It's that... what was it that Kattunge said? It's the sort of broken emotions and egos that a lot of falsely Nice Guys put a mask on and have to bray from their soap-boxes about how good and how nice they are, and why do they have to finish last when it's obvious that they love X and she's not instantly falling for his nice and good deeds that I'm taking issue with. Behind all of that is the assumption that women are to blame for a Nice Guy not getting laid, shifting all responsibility away from themselves and then using that victimization as a sort of martyrdom so that they have more to wail about, instead of taking an honest look at their situation (including emotions like that bitterness and insecurity) and figuring out some logical steps to get into a healthier lifestyle. :x

Banding together under the flag of victimization for something like this is the biggest irk for me. Nice Guys (note the capitals please, I'm not trying to say ALL guys or all guys on the spectrum of genuinely nice to falsely nice... the ones who aren't being duplicitous should know who they are) need to take responsibility for their actions and to drop thinking of women as some kind of goal, where waiting and wheedling will win the game.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

I meant just sneaking a peak, not sneaking penetration.

*edit* I think it's norm of human behavior to be curious. My norm is that, even not being warned of it beforehand, if a person starts changing, I just turn away, as a form of conditioned response

 

[wallpaper]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

*sneaks your mom*

Yeah, I didn't get that from the post. XD Sorry, my bad.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

Wait... you're sneaking a peak at my mom or sneakin.... OH GOD! MOM!

*runs to room*

 

[wallpaper]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

See, myself, I wouldn't mind if someone snuck a peek at me if I was friends with them. A stranger, not so much... but if a person feels insecure about their body or the other person's intentions, they shouldn't have to be fearful that they're going to get peered at, y'know?

God, I'm such an idealist. 9_9 *slaps self*

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

Ha! You're an idealist. Even an invitation wouldn't convince me it was ok to turn towards that sort of thing. Call it some misguided oversense of privacy. And although you personally wouldn't mind it, because I can imagine the single person who would have the tiniest doubt towards their friend after catching them peaking, I couldn't. It's that whole individual variance thing that causes me to further a benefit to satisfying everyone, despite realizing the futility of it.

I guess there's a bit of selfishness on my side though. I feel great pleasing others so I'm a bit of a whore through my niceness. I kind of do nice things, knowing I'll feel better about having done them. So yeah, like I said, everyone has it to their degree.

 

[Obeliskos]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

Gah...

I guess that every person here has his/her own interpretation of the words nice guy/girl... Obe, what were you thinking when you posted this? Did you really want to start a debate like this?

No. Actually, this went over well at /b/. I guess it's got a debate because wimminz are on this forum.

Why can't you people just tear up and rep me!?

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

Quoting things is only cool for reference humor. Everything else must be your own words.

But since you asked, I'll rep you if you bark like a dog

 

[Obeliskos]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

Does it count if I agree with everything in it and wanted to relay it here? In any case, *bark!*

Also, they seem to forget that not everyone finds everyone attractive. She doesn't think you're hot. So she's not going to date you. Sorry.

That's part of the focus of the OP. Girls wish and beg for a "nice guy", then turn the opportunity down when a nice guy comes along just because he isn't as smoking hot as the asshole across the street.

EDIT: Did Toxic just get me two full rep powers? New record!

 

[Newbie]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

It's the sort of broken emotions and egos that a lot of falsely Nice Guys put a mask on and have to bray from their soap-boxes about how good and how nice they are, and why do they have to finish last when it's obvious that they love X and she's not instantly falling for his nice and good deeds that I'm taking issue with.

I understand, and the majority of my point was this:

If people feel they need to be recognized for being decent human beings then it's likely they aren't, simple as that.

I agree with you entirely on this. False people are usually bad people, and those who are false in order to be manipulative effectively spoil the good name of whatever it is they imitate. Forget about the looks women give me when I hold open the door, you should see how confused some of the guys are.

 

[DarkFire1004]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

... You know when I first saw this topic's title, I thought nice guy was referring to how some people are nice in general, and not to women. Obviously I was wrong.

And that brings up a pretty big point that makes up a huge part of my philosophy in life. You're an asshole for even thinking your a nice guy. Of course, I'm too pessimistic about everything. In my eyes, anybody who thinks they're nice is a conceited person. Those who think they should do nice things because it's the right thing to do is the real nice guy/girl/whatever the hell can keep people from yelling about me for not retaining equal rights.

The real nice guy doesn't even acknowledge that he's nice. He probably doesn't even know he's nice. He just does it because it truly is part of his being. The person who has to force himself to be nice isn't actually a nice guy. He's just a polite guy. Meanwhile, the ones who force themselves to be nice and then call themselves nice are people who want to be labeled as nice.

I'm not saying I'm a nice guy either. I'm a 100% hypocrite, pure and simple. But I admit I'm not nice and never will be. Therefore I can let myself say, even though my conscience will still yell at me for being conceited, that I'm better than those people who call themselves nice. I'm the guy who at least wants to be polite at the appropriate times.

But I kinda of went off the actual topic, which is about women. More on the women thing, of course it sucks that you've tried to be nice and it blew up in your face. It doesn't matter if you're genuinely nice or you're a prick who wants some poontang. It sucks to get nothing in return for kindness. But this is where people's true colors show for those who are interested in you. They come in three flavors:

1) The genuinely nice guy, who still keeps being nice because it's the right thing to do.

2) The guy who continues to be nice because he still likes the girl.

3) The dumbshit who flips out over not getting what he wants.

As we go down, in my opinion the people who actually deserve that thank you that Obe posted is 1. The people who are 2 kind of deserve it, but should set his priorities straight. Improve yourself first before you start chasing tail. As for 3, you can go rot for all I care.

Of course there's always that elusive 4th flavor that I'm going to guess that many people are in this forum because if you're like me, and I know you are, you do this a lot:

4) You're the guy who recognizes he's a jackass at heart. People call you nice, but you know you're a prick. That's why you sabotage yourself. Something nice happens, you take it upon yourself to ruin it. With women, the roles are reversed. You deny her the entry because they shouldn't have to put up with your shit. That's why you put up that asshole front; to keep those you care about at bay and don't too close to your rancid center.

... Wait, that might just be me. Either way, in my opinion, 4 is a giant pussy and an emo faggot. Of course, I just described myself, and yes I do mean to call myself a giant pussy and an emo faggot. It's how I roll .

Also, peanuts are for those slobs everywhere that pick their teeth in public view or make loud slurping sounds to get the remnants out of their gums. They must be destroyed at all costs.

 

[Alias]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

That rant that someone posted was actually... quite informative. Seems like I'm in the middle of the spectrum - some of the things I do are definitely Nice Guyish, but I never realized it. Mostly because my understanding of people is... flawed... at best. The funny thing is, even though I'm not an out-and-out asshole (or at least try not to be... sometimes it doesn't work out that way), I am in a committed relationship and have been for almost a decade. But after reading that, I've realized it's possible that the only reason I've been fighting for this whole thing to work between me and her is the status symbol... as a sort of way to tell all the kids that used to harass me in grade school 'you're wrong about me! I'm happier than all of you!'

This realization comes as quite a shock, and I'm not sure if I want to continue the relationship if the foundation of it is so flawed. My problem is, I don't know if it's flawed or not. Yeah, we fight a lot, but I've always attributed that to the fact that we've been living apart from each other for months at a time. Now that I'm living in her town and going to the same college, well I guess we'll see what's really what.

But that's sort of beside the point I wanted to make. My point is... I had no idea that some of the things I was doing gravitated towards the Nice Guy end of the spectrum. And if someone's a Nice Guy, chances are they're a Nice Guy for a reason beyond a flawed personality (abusive parents being the most likely cause). And if that's the case, it's even more likely that they have no idea that what they are doing is actually being a dick rather than being nice.

I could be wrong - all of that is just based off my own personal experience, and then the rest is speculation. I'd be happy to welcome any discussion on whether Nice Guys are just douchebags or if they're actually just scarred and oblivious. But if I'm not wrong, just please take the speculation into consideration... if you tell a Nice Guy that he's actually being a douchebag, he might change.

Of course, since he is a Nice Guy he probably won't believe you, or blame your reaction to him on a flawed perspective of him. Can't help you with that one... first step to being a better person is admitting you're a shitty person after all, and if they're unwilling to meet you halfway with that, might be that they're a lost cause.

Thoughts?