RPG Patreon Active Renfield

[KleptoLizard]

Re: Renfield

scrap what your doing and forget about making it look like a elder scrolls game and make it into a Borderlands H-game!

I plan on doing some Fallout/Borderlands-style content eventually.

 

[Acac]

Re: Renfield

I don't think we lurkers are skeptical. I think we're just intimidated by the walls of text the previous few posts have been.

Keep at it, man. We're all waiting for a test release. Cheers. =)

 

[MajorKagami]

Re: Renfield

I plan on doing some Fallout/Borderlands-style content eventually.

it was more of a joke. I just went from yay this game sounds great, to I'll believe it when I'm playing it. for now I will think of this as the coming of Jesus of H-games.

 

[Yes]

Re: Renfield

I'm not really entirely sure what you want.

In terms of graphical content, i can't help you as i don't have the experience, and i would say most of lurkers here would be in the same boat. I'm also unable to express any ideas for quests or game mechanics in a way anything other than conceptually. ie I want to make it so that the protag is tricked into eating some kind of aphrodisiac and has to resist being raped. As time progresses it gets harder and harder to resist (no pun intended) and the amount of time spent resisting correlates to how much money of yours is stolen as the thief raping you is getting frustrated by your resistance.

For this to occur there must surely be all kinds of mechanics just to support this one scenario, ie there must be a trigger that activates "rape mode" rather than "battle mode" and variables for things like your lust, your physical strength (for resisting), your will (how easily you give up) and i can't provide solid scripting for how this would all work just the basic idea, and it would then be up to you to somehow fit this is your game.

So what i'm saying is I can't really help you other than conceptualizing ideas for different sex scenes (or even just basic gameplay ideas). I reckon if you created a thread asking for "bethesda style" erotic quest ideas you would get a whole bunch of feedback but maybe people are a little put off by the need for them to provide some substance to these concepts, backed up by how the could be coded into your game.

Sorry if i've misunderstood anything about the concept of your game, i have hardly any programming experience and 0 game making experience, but i think the game concept is a great one if quite ambitious and just wanna help if i can.

PS. I don't think spite would a problem on this forum, you can either contribute and help produce an epic game for free or you don't but from my experience modders are generally quite generous and helpful. Have you tried hongfire? Artificial academy 2 was quite nicely modified so as to be playable in english with some quite decent extra content created by the community there.

 

[KleptoLizard]

Re: Renfield

it was more of a joke. I just went from yay this game sounds great, to I'll believe it when I'm playing it. for now I will think of this as the coming of Jesus of H-games.

Oh ok.
For a minute I thought you were seriously suggesting I scrap the 100s of hours of work I've put in.
But I do want to create a futuristic/post-apocalyptic spinoff at some point.

 

[afa]

Re: Renfield

I too am a little lost on what this is trying to be. Or perhaps what I think it is trying to be is a little too ambitious.

What I am reading is that it is trying to be a standalone game with sexual systems and variables in place. But at the same time it is also modable by other creators who will use these systems to create content.

I don't know if the "hard coded" systems will be enough of a catch all solution to satisfy every moders' needs or be close enough to it. In that case you will run into similar problem with what happened to Bethesda games and how people try to come up with solutions around them.

Or you might end up with how each mod will come up with its own solutions which might or might not conflict, but could lead to inconsistency.

Honestly if you want something that can catch attention and drum up interests all you need is pick a genre of popular rpgmaker game (or even just a few particular titles) look at their commonality, and make it 3d with all the bells and whistles that a detailed 3d world could bring.

 

[KleptoLizard]

Re: Renfield

I too am a little lost on what this is trying to be. Or perhaps what I think it is trying to be is a little too ambitious.

You must be registered to see the links

I'm providing the "Stone" in terms of a bare-bones 3D engine that we can customize and expand.
From there I'll add content based on what people would like to see.
If people are willing to contribute any original assets, which could be anything, I'll pay them out of the game sales.

Then I'll upload a new version based on what we've added and changed.
So the first version of the game will be very simple.
But as it grows and grows it will become deeper and more complicated.

 

[KleptoLizard]

Re: Renfield

I don't know if the "hard coded" systems will be enough of a catch all solution to satisfy every moders' needs or be close enough to it. In that case you will run into similar problem with what happened to Bethesda games and how people try to come up with solutions around them.

This won't be a problem because I'll be working hand-in-hand with modders and content contributors.
It's really much, much easier than people seem to realize.
I suppose programming seems really arcane to those who are new to it.
But most types of content don't need any particular coding knowledge.

If you make a model of an item, you don't need to integrate it into a Unity editor on your end.
We'll negotiate a price, then I add the model to the game.
That's it.
The only software you need to know is the software you use to actually make the content.

 

[stuntcock42]

Re: Renfield

This won't be a problem because I'll be working hand-in-hand with modders and content contributors.
It's really much, much easier than people seem to realize.

"Scope" is a serious issue which game designers inevitably need to address. afa had a valid point regarding hard-coded systems and modders' needs (or expectations). Let's consider the core scenario that you've introduced: the player goes on a quest to defeat and capture five witches. How does the confrontation with a witch play out? I'll run through three examples, just to illustrate the different kinds of systems that authors might expect.

• The game has a separate Visual Novel mode, like an RPGMaker game. 3dRPG gameplay is used for exploration, travel, combat, etc... but character interactions (particularly sexual ones) occur as VN scenes.

Spoiler

• player approaches witch NPC
• NPC is hostile
• As soon as the NPC detects the player character, a battle begins
  • for narrative reasons, the script might "lock the doors" once the battle begins to prevent the player from using "cheesy" tactics - such as luring the witch outside and knocking her off a cliff
• the battle uses normal 3dRPG gameplay in first-person perspective - this is essentially a "boss fight."
• assume that the player wins.
  • player loss scenarios are also worth considering (both GOR and non-GOR varieties should be supported by the scripting system) but we'll ignore that for now
• Since the NPC is marked as plot-critical, they don't actually die. However, hitting 0 HP causes them to become passive and fires off the appropriate script.
  • Usually this would just be something like [[playVNScene("witchDefeated")]]. But you could throw in some clever embellishments here, like switching the witch's outfit to a battle-damaged version before starting the next scene.
• Gameplay shifts to Visual Novel style, showing the defeated witch NPC and player character (using third-person perpective) - this is essentially a "cutscene" rather than "gameplay."
• Narration and dialog is delivered in VN text form.
• The text is overlaid on an in-engine 3d image (either a posed still or a "live scene" showing a short animation loop). This image will advance (slideshow-style) as the player clicks through the text and reaches the scripted transition points.
• The player may be given VN-style options (e.g. "have sex with witch" vs "handcuff witch and bring her back to sheriff" vs "kill witch"). These will mostly just influence how the VN scene plays out, but they could have consequences for subsequent gameplay (e.g. [[player.MaxHP += 5]] or [[npcWitch.moveTo("villagePrisonCell")]] or whatever). It's up to the modder to implement these consequences.
• The player probably won't be given the option to save the game in the middle of a VN scene (because writing a resumable script is a greater challenge). However, the Renfield engine and UI should probably give users a "skip text" button.
• If the game includes a Quest system (which it probably should if you intend to have lots of modders contributing little unrelated scenes) then it should be possible for choices made in VN scenes to influence Quests (starting a new quest, advancing quests, failing quests).
• When the VN scene is complete, gameplay shift back to 3dRPG.

Advantages:

• VN scenes can be kept mostly separate from gameplay logic. Since they contain a minimum of scripting, they should be "readable" even for non-programmers. If an author makes an editing pass over his VN script (for spelling mistakes or whatever), there's very little risk that he'll accidentally break a quest or crash the compiler.
• This format offers maximum freedom in crafting narrative. The text can describe actions (e.g. squirting orgasm) which are absent from the game's visual assets and can effectively convey inner monologues.
• The VN scenes can potentially be made replayable (as is the case in most H-games); the player does not need to maintain a huge list of saved games in order to revisit their favorite scenes.

Disadvantages:

• scene transitions may be jarring
• since the VN medium tends to describe the actions and motivations of the player character, there's a risk of ludonarrative dissonance
• differences in writing style will stand out. The "tone" of the game (and/or the narrated behaviour of the player character) may change abruptly as you move between zones written by different modders.
• if sex can occur only within a VN "cutscene" then the sandbox aspect of the game will feel more shallow.

• NPC interaction and plot is delivered MMORPG style via minimally-intrusive onscreen text elements. Simple animations (e.g. sit, cry, laugh) are used to establish the scene and to cut down on text.

Spoiler

• player approaches witch NPC
• NPC is initially passive
• Walking onto a trigger area (and/or a simple proximity check) causes the witch to start a conversation.
• Dialog is delivered via GUI elements (e.g. dialog boxes or onscreen "speech bubbles").
• Some narration can be provided via *emotes, but it should involve actual on-screen action (animations) wherever possible.
• The scripting for such scenes will be more complex and time-consuming than a simple text narrative. Example:
  • npcWitch.Approach(npcApprentice)
  • npcWitch.Say("Fool! You've allowed another tresspasser to reach my ceremonial chamber!?")
  • npcWitch.Emote(" slaps her Apprentice roughly, knocking her to the floor.")
  • renfieldGame.SyncAnimate(animations.twoActor.slap, npcWitch, npcApprentice)
  • renfieldGame.SetIdleAnimation(animations.idle.prone, npcApprentice)
  • npcWitch.Say("I'll think of an appropriate punishment for you after I've disposed of this 'hero'...")
  • talkmenu.Show("I've come to end your villainy!", "Why do you treat your apprentice so harshly?", "Can't we resolve this peacefully?")
• The dialog boxes are modal; the player is given an unlimited amount of time to read each one. The next scripted action (or dialog box) will begin when the player clicks "Next" or "Continue."
  • if you're feeling ambitious, then you could have the NPC play a "flapping mouth" animation loop and make Simlish noises while the dialog box is visible. It's admitedly silly, but the alternative (NPC stares vacantly into the camera while the player reads a dialog box) can feel creepy.
• Some dialog boxes will offer a choice among several possible lines. These may be simply for roleplaying, or they may link to a karma/morality system. They may also invoke Skill challenges or minigames (e.g. "Persuade the witch", "Steal the witch's amulet", etc).
• The game should probably include an "auto" button, which automatically invokes "Next" until the dialog reaches a decision-point.
  • full "skipping" is probably not possible, because some actions within the "scene" (e.g. witch picks up her staff, witch walks into her magic circle) must play out in order for subsequent combat/gameplay to work properly.
  • You could speed up the animations (so that NPCs run around like Benny Hill and flail their arms hilariously) but it might undermine any drama which the creator is trying to convey. Then again, if the player wants to Skip the scene then they probably don't care about tone.
• Various branches within the dialog tree will end the dialog. For instance, the player might choose "Attack!" or they might invoke a skill challenge ("Steal the witch's amulet") and then fail the minigame.
  • Perhaps the script will track repetitions, and the NPC will end the conversation (attack, walk away, go to sleep) if the player keeps looping through the same dialog line over and over. Shepard. Wrex. Shepard. Wrex. Shepard. Wrex.
• When dialog ends, normal play resumes. The choices made within the dialog can influence gameplay. For example: the player succesfully pickpocketed the witch's amulet, so her defensive spells are disabled. Or the player promised to aid the witch's apprentice, so the apprentice will now help out during the fight (and if she survives then maybe you can try to seduce her afterwards).
• When combat is resolved, an additional dialog can be triggered. This might be a simple villain-death-soliloquy ("And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!") or a pseudo-narration which uses text to convey details which the animation is too crude to handle.
  • dialog.Show("As your adversary's magical aura falters and she falls to the floor, you see a glimmer as a small item rolls out of her pocket. Next ->>")
  • dialog.Show("You decide to take it with you. Next ->>")
  • renfieldGame.syncAnimate(animations.twoActor.touchProneActor, player, npcWitch)
  • player.inventory.addQuestItem(enchantedRuby)
  • renfieldGame.questEngine.StartOrAdvance(enchantedGems)
  • renfieldGame.syncAnimate(animations.oneActor.examineHeldItem, player)
  • dialog.Show("Something tells you that there's more to this little gem than meets the eye. End ->>")
• This same system could be used for sex scenes, although they would feel more "video gamey" and less immersive than the VN style. Since the player retains camera control, they could manipulate the perspective (and maybe shift between first- and third-person view, if the game allows it). Example:
  • dialog.Show("You insert Tab A into Slot B.")
  • renfieldGame.syncAnimate(animations.twoActor.sexual.missionaryInsertion, npcPlayer, npcWitch)
  • if (player.genitals.male.size < 4) { npcWitch.Say("Is it in yet?") }
  • dialog.Show("You begin thrusting.")
  • renfieldGame.syncAnimate(animations.twoActor.sexual.missionaryLoop, npcPlayer, npcWitch)
  • talkmenu.Show("Switch to wheelbarrow position.", "Switch to blowjob.", "Finish")

Advantages:

• these scenes are easier to translate, since much of the content is visual and there are fewer words.
• gameplay transitions will be less disruptive, since the camera perspective and GUI elements can be preserved. Modders can use this format, even for very short scenes (<20 seconds) without players feeling that their game is constantly being hijacked.
• this format can be used to write NPC-NPC encounters (e.g. shopkeeper confronting a thief) which help bring the world to life.

Disadvantages:

• synchronization tends to cause problems. The witch is supposed to walk over, slap her apprentice, and then say a line of dialog. But there's an unexpected obstacle on the floor, so she gets stuck and just keeps walking in the same spot, trying to get close enough to perform the animation.
• this format is inherently less immersive than a text-focused one (such as the Visual Novel). If you want your game to be erotic then the sex imagery (and/or animations) will need to be strong enough to compensate for the "casual" feel of the experience.
• authors will feel constrained by the library of available animations. It's difficult for novices to create 3d animations (especially multi-actor ones) so authors might just give up and abandon a scene if they find that the necessary animations aren't available.
• this format meshes poorly with voice-acting. Renfield can probably ignore this disadvantage, since you don't have a budget for voicework anyways.

• Mundane interactions (e.g. buying potions from vendor; sorting your inventory) use GUI menus, but plot-critical conversations rely on text input and parsing.

Spoiler

• This would be similar to the MMORPG example above, with NPCs giving speeches and "Next ->>" buttons being presented. But there would be no clickable dialog options for the player.
• At each decision point, the choice would be typed in as text. A parser would attempt to resolve the input into one of the acceptable actions. If the input cannot be resolved, the player gets prompted to try again.
• The NPC dialog will need to drop hints about interactions options:
  • npcWitch.Say("Foolish barbarian! You cannot hope to defeat me while I am protected by my magic amulet!")
  • renfieldGame.asyncAnimate(animations.oneActor.laugh, npcWitch)
  • dialog.Show("The witch's gloating has left her vulnerable. What will you do?")
  • renfieldGame.parseInput(...)
• This design allows modders to structure their conversations into a non-linear set of topics which can be expanded later on (shoehorning new material into a linear dialog can be awkward).
• Some encounters or scenes can be written as "puzzle" elements, which cannot be properly resolved until the player has explored the game world and learned some important detail (e.g. what's the Elvish word for 'friend'?).
• Players might get frustrated if the "acceptable input" options are too restrictive or if the parser is uncooperative. Therefore, the game should generally allow input such as "skip" "fight" "battle" "attack" which will end the dialog early and return to normal 3dRPG gameplay.

Advantages:

• emphasizes roleplaying and world-building. Could be more immersive
• allows authors to create "puzzle" challenges which are based on player knowledge (as opposed to combat sections and skill-challenge minigames, which rely on things like "reflex" or "character stats" or "the player's ability to exploit game mechanics")
• allows for some creative and unusual scenes - e.g. player is tied up by a dominatrix and she will inflict serious harm on them, mocking their cries for mercy and their pleas for her to stop... unless they paid attention during dialog and know that the Safety Word is banana (which causes her to untie the the player and ends the scene)

Disadvantages:

• coding a text parser is not fun
• writing content for a text parser is not fun
• playing with a text parser is often not fun
• some players don't enjoy being challenged directly: "My character has 18 intelligence. He should be able to solve this puzzle automatically without any help from me."
• text-parser content is costly to translate and requires extensive testing.

You cannot accommodate all of these styles effectively in a single game. Even if you could keep the codebase lean and stable, the gameplay experience would quickly become confusing - with players shifting unexpectedly between combat, cutscenes, riddles, sex animation-loop, dungeon crawling, looting, physics puzzles, navigating mazes, escorting NPCs, lockpicking minigames, text-block sex scenes, etc...

The text-parsing stuff isn't even a serious proposal - I'd call you crazy if you tried to implement it! It's just an example of something that an author/modder ask for, because it would really help them to build an awesome scene that they have in mind.

--------------------------

At some point, you're going to need to say "no" to a modder's request. It's best to do so as early as possible (even pre-emptively!), because unmanaged scope creep can easily kill a project. It can add so much complexity that bugs proliferate and code maintenance becomes impossible; it can cause conflict and splintering within the dev/mod team; it can slow down development so much that the fanbase abandons the game; it can give people unrealistic expectation and leave them disappointed with the features that are missing instead of being pleased by all of the stuff that you've included. Limit your scope.

 

[KleptoLizard]

Re: Renfield

How does the confrontation with a witch play out?

At the moment you just find them and defeat them.
No dynamic interaction until after they've been defeated.
After that they are taken back to a dungeon where you interact with them in an instanced location.
So the environment where the sex takes place is a controlled one.
No chance of being attacked by a bear during sex.

Also, your text parsing example made me think of this game:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[afa]

Re: Renfield

• The game has a separate Visual Novel mode, like an RPGMaker game. 3dRPG gameplay is used for exploration, travel, combat, etc... but character interactions (particularly sexual ones) occur as VN scenes.

Spoiler

• player approaches witch NPC
• NPC is hostile
• As soon as the NPC detects the player character, a battle begins
  • for narrative reasons, the script might "lock the doors" once the battle begins to prevent the player from using "cheesy" tactics - such as luring the witch outside and knocking her off a cliff
• the battle uses normal 3dRPG gameplay in first-person perspective - this is essentially a "boss fight."
• assume that the player wins.
  • player loss scenarios are also worth considering (both GOR and non-GOR varieties should be supported by the scripting system) but we'll ignore that for now
• Since the NPC is marked as plot-critical, they don't actually die. However, hitting 0 HP causes them to become passive and fires off the appropriate script.
  • Usually this would just be something like [[playVNScene("witchDefeated")]]. But you could throw in some clever embellishments here, like switching the witch's outfit to a battle-damaged version before starting the next scene.
• Gameplay shifts to Visual Novel style, showing the defeated witch NPC and player character (using third-person perpective) - this is essentially a "cutscene" rather than "gameplay."
• Narration and dialog is delivered in VN text form.
• The text is overlaid on an in-engine 3d image (either a posed still or a "live scene" showing a short animation loop). This image will advance (slideshow-style) as the player clicks through the text and reaches the scripted transition points.
• The player may be given VN-style options (e.g. "have sex with witch" vs "handcuff witch and bring her back to sheriff" vs "kill witch"). These will mostly just influence how the VN scene plays out, but they could have consequences for subsequent gameplay (e.g. [[player.MaxHP += 5]] or [[npcWitch.moveTo("villagePrisonCell")]] or whatever). It's up to the modder to implement these consequences.
• The player probably won't be given the option to save the game in the middle of a VN scene (because writing a resumable script is a greater challenge). However, the Renfield engine and UI should probably give users a "skip text" button.
• If the game includes a Quest system (which it probably should if you intend to have lots of modders contributing little unrelated scenes) then it should be possible for choices made in VN scenes to influence Quests (starting a new quest, advancing quests, failing quests).
• When the VN scene is complete, gameplay shift back to 3dRPG.

Advantages:

• VN scenes can be kept mostly separate from gameplay logic. Since they contain a minimum of scripting, they should be "readable" even for non-programmers. If an author makes an editing pass over his VN script (for spelling mistakes or whatever), there's very little risk that he'll accidentally break a quest or crash the compiler.
• This format offers maximum freedom in crafting narrative. The text can describe actions (e.g. squirting orgasm) which are absent from the game's visual assets and can effectively convey inner monologues.
• The VN scenes can potentially be made replayable (as is the case in most H-games); the player does not need to maintain a huge list of saved games in order to revisit their favorite scenes.

Disadvantages:

• scene transitions may be jarring
• since the VN medium tends to describe the actions and motivations of the player character, there's a risk of ludonarrative dissonance
• differences in writing style will stand out. The "tone" of the game (and/or the narrated behaviour of the player character) may change abruptly as you move between zones written by different modders.
• if sex can occur only within a VN "cutscene" then the sandbox aspect of the game will feel more shallow.

• NPC interaction and plot is delivered MMORPG style via minimally-intrusive onscreen text elements. Simple animations (e.g. sit, cry, laugh) are used to establish the scene and to cut down on text.

Spoiler

• player approaches witch NPC
• NPC is initially passive
• Walking onto a trigger area (and/or a simple proximity check) causes the witch to start a conversation.
• Dialog is delivered via GUI elements (e.g. dialog boxes or onscreen "speech bubbles").
• Some narration can be provided via *emotes, but it should involve actual on-screen action (animations) wherever possible.
• The scripting for such scenes will be more complex and time-consuming than a simple text narrative. Example:
  • npcWitch.Approach(npcApprentice)
  • npcWitch.Say("Fool! You've allowed another tresspasser to reach my ceremonial chamber!?")
  • npcWitch.Emote(" slaps her Apprentice roughly, knocking her to the floor.")
  • renfieldGame.SyncAnimate(animations.twoActor.slap, npcWitch, npcApprentice)
  • renfieldGame.SetIdleAnimation(animations.idle.prone, npcApprentice)
  • npcWitch.Say("I'll think of an appropriate punishment for you after I've disposed of this 'hero'...")
  • talkmenu.Show("I've come to end your villainy!", "Why do you treat your apprentice so harshly?", "Can't we resolve this peacefully?")
• The dialog boxes are modal; the player is given an unlimited amount of time to read each one. The next scripted action (or dialog box) will begin when the player clicks "Next" or "Continue."
  • if you're feeling ambitious, then you could have the NPC play a "flapping mouth" animation loop and make Simlish noises while the dialog box is visible. It's admitedly silly, but the alternative (NPC stares vacantly into the camera while the player reads a dialog box) can feel creepy.
• Some dialog boxes will offer a choice among several possible lines. These may be simply for roleplaying, or they may link to a karma/morality system. They may also invoke Skill challenges or minigames (e.g. "Persuade the witch", "Steal the witch's amulet", etc).
• The game should probably include an "auto" button, which automatically invokes "Next" until the dialog reaches a decision-point.
  • full "skipping" is probably not possible, because some actions within the "scene" (e.g. witch picks up her staff, witch walks into her magic circle) must play out in order for subsequent combat/gameplay to work properly.
  • You could speed up the animations (so that NPCs run around like Benny Hill and flail their arms hilariously) but it might undermine any drama which the creator is trying to convey. Then again, if the player wants to Skip the scene then they probably don't care about tone.
• Various branches within the dialog tree will end the dialog. For instance, the player might choose "Attack!" or they might invoke a skill challenge ("Steal the witch's amulet") and then fail the minigame.
  • Perhaps the script will track repetitions, and the NPC will end the conversation (attack, walk away, go to sleep) if the player keeps looping through the same dialog line over and over. Shepard. Wrex. Shepard. Wrex. Shepard. Wrex.
• When dialog ends, normal play resumes. The choices made within the dialog can influence gameplay. For example: the player succesfully pickpocketed the witch's amulet, so her defensive spells are disabled. Or the player promised to aid the witch's apprentice, so the apprentice will now help out during the fight (and if she survives then maybe you can try to seduce her afterwards).
• When combat is resolved, an additional dialog can be triggered. This might be a simple villain-death-soliloquy ("And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!") or a pseudo-narration which uses text to convey details which the animation is too crude to handle.
  • dialog.Show("As your adversary's magical aura falters and she falls to the floor, you see a glimmer as a small item rolls out of her pocket. Next ->>")
  • dialog.Show("You decide to take it with you. Next ->>")
  • renfieldGame.syncAnimate(animations.twoActor.touchProneActor, player, npcWitch)
  • player.inventory.addQuestItem(enchantedRuby)
  • renfieldGame.questEngine.StartOrAdvance(enchantedGems)
  • renfieldGame.syncAnimate(animations.oneActor.examineHeldItem, player)
  • dialog.Show("Something tells you that there's more to this little gem than meets the eye. End ->>")
• This same system could be used for sex scenes, although they would feel more "video gamey" and less immersive than the VN style. Since the player retains camera control, they could manipulate the perspective (and maybe shift between first- and third-person view, if the game allows it). Example:
  • dialog.Show("You insert Tab A into Slot B.")
  • renfieldGame.syncAnimate(animations.twoActor.sexual.missionaryInsertion, npcPlayer, npcWitch)
  • if (player.genitals.male.size < 4) { npcWitch.Say("Is it in yet?") }
  • dialog.Show("You begin thrusting.")
  • renfieldGame.syncAnimate(animations.twoActor.sexual.missionaryLoop, npcPlayer, npcWitch)
  • talkmenu.Show("Switch to wheelbarrow position.", "Switch to blowjob.", "Finish")

Advantages:

• these scenes are easier to translate, since much of the content is visual and there are fewer words.
• gameplay transitions will be less disruptive, since the camera perspective and GUI elements can be preserved. Modders can use this format, even for very short scenes (<20 seconds) without players feeling that their game is constantly being hijacked.
• this format can be used to write NPC-NPC encounters (e.g. shopkeeper confronting a thief) which help bring the world to life.

Disadvantages:

• synchronization tends to cause problems. The witch is supposed to walk over, slap her apprentice, and then say a line of dialog. But there's an unexpected obstacle on the floor, so she gets stuck and just keeps walking in the same spot, trying to get close enough to perform the animation.
• this format is inherently less immersive than a text-focused one (such as the Visual Novel). If you want your game to be erotic then the sex imagery (and/or animations) will need to be strong enough to compensate for the "casual" feel of the experience.
• authors will feel constrained by the library of available animations. It's difficult for novices to create 3d animations (especially multi-actor ones) so authors might just give up and abandon a scene if they find that the necessary animations aren't available.
• this format meshes poorly with voice-acting. Renfield can probably ignore this disadvantage, since you don't have a budget for voicework anyways.

• Mundane interactions (e.g. buying potions from vendor; sorting your inventory) use GUI menus, but plot-critical conversations rely on text input and parsing.

Spoiler

• This would be similar to the MMORPG example above, with NPCs giving speeches and "Next ->>" buttons being presented. But there would be no clickable dialog options for the player.
• At each decision point, the choice would be typed in as text. A parser would attempt to resolve the input into one of the acceptable actions. If the input cannot be resolved, the player gets prompted to try again.
• The NPC dialog will need to drop hints about interactions options:
  • npcWitch.Say("Foolish barbarian! You cannot hope to defeat me while I am protected by my magic amulet!")
  • renfieldGame.asyncAnimate(animations.oneActor.laugh, npcWitch)
  • dialog.Show("The witch's gloating has left her vulnerable. What will you do?")
  • renfieldGame.parseInput(...)
• This design allows modders to structure their conversations into a non-linear set of topics which can be expanded later on (shoehorning new material into a linear dialog can be awkward).
• Some encounters or scenes can be written as "puzzle" elements, which cannot be properly resolved until the player has explored the game world and learned some important detail (e.g. what's the Elvish word for 'friend'?).
• Players might get frustrated if the "acceptable input" options are too restrictive or if the parser is uncooperative. Therefore, the game should generally allow input such as "skip" "fight" "battle" "attack" which will end the dialog early and return to normal 3dRPG gameplay.

Advantages:

• emphasizes roleplaying and world-building. Could be more immersive
• allows authors to create "puzzle" challenges which are based on player knowledge (as opposed to combat sections and skill-challenge minigames, which rely on things like "reflex" or "character stats" or "the player's ability to exploit game mechanics")
• allows for some creative and unusual scenes - e.g. player is tied up by a dominatrix and she will inflict serious harm on them, mocking their cries for mercy and their pleas for her to stop... unless they paid attention during dialog and know that the Safety Word is banana (which causes her to untie the the player and ends the scene)

Disadvantages:

• coding a text parser is not fun
• writing content for a text parser is not fun
• playing with a text parser is often not fun
• some players don't enjoy being challenged directly: "My character has 18 intelligence. He should be able to solve this puzzle automatically without any help from me."
• text-parser content is costly to translate and requires extensive testing.

I think it has to be closer to the second choice, cut scene based scenario or storytelling like the first is ok but there'll need to be in engine animation to show what is going on. Just saying "yo they be having sex" with text isn't going to cut it, if there's orgasm there needs to be an animation or cues for that as well. But if you need a "clean room" for your business then I think it is up to the modder to cleverly hide or get rid of the things that could mess up a scene.

However I think there should be some kind of system to handle things that are more dynamic like sex that could trigger during fight or battle similar to many hrpg based on clothing destruction, health threshold, On hit chance etc.

 

[KleptoLizard]

Re: Renfield

Just saying "yo they be having sex" with text isn't going to cut it

Yeah. As much as I like text-based games, after a while you get tired of the walls of words.
Some of the descriptions of the encounters are pretty good in games like Corruption of Champions.
But pictures, especially moving pictures, accompanying the text enhances the scene dramatically.

The first version of Renfield will handle H-scene content in a similar way to Anime Lilith titles.
There will be text with dialog and narration, cgs, and some animation.
Since animation is a bit trickier, not every position will have an animation at first.

 

[KleptoLizard]

Re: Renfield

However I think there should be some kind of system to handle things that are more dynamic like sex that could trigger during fight or battle similar to many hrpg based on clothing destruction, health threshold, On hit chance etc.

I'm not opposed to people making content like this, but I personally don't like this kind of thing.
Games that only have sex-on-the-spot are the kind you tend to get bored of quickly.
Like Skyrim sexmods where you just walk up to someone and start fucking them in the middle of the street.

I did enjoy stalking people with Oblivion mods and trying to find a place where nobody was looking.
Also playing as a female character who'll get raped if she loses adds a special tension to combat.
But generally it's cleaner and more convincing for a loser to be dragged back to a secure location before the H commences.

 

[Sithri]

Re: Renfield

Things I haven't really seen in a 3d environment (or much in 2d even) is when enemies just have sexual attacks in general

getting dragged back somewhere and having to escape is pretty awesome but i wish there was more to fighting something like a succubus than getting punched in the face or getting set on fire and the like

it doesn't necessarily mean just automatically turn the fight into a sex scene, it should mean the enemy did something really strange and now your character is disabled in some weird way, or distracted, or liable to fail doing something

of course only applies to enemies applicable but i find it kind of annoying it never happens in anything cept text games

 

[stuntcock42]

Re: Renfield

Things I haven't really seen in a 3d environment (or much in 2d even) is when enemies just have sexual attacks in general

Fairy Fighting is an excellent example which illustrates why you don't see these things.

Enemy-initiated attacks are a nice feature if it involves a sexual fetish that the player finds appealing and it coincides with the player's desire for titillation. Under any other circumstances (e.g. it's a vore scene which grosses out the player, or if the player is simply trying to beat the stage because the next encounter really turns them on) then it's an unwelcome loss-of-control which detracts from player engagement.

The main balancing problem is duration - a five-second attack animation is unreasonably long in a fast-paced action game, but it's also much too short for sexual gratification. Repetition is a risk - even the coolest attack will start to look silly when you've seen it twelve times (e.g. Mortal Kombat). The final problem is perspective - 3dRPG control and camera systems tend to be designed for combat with multiple opponents at ranges of 1m to 20m. When you put characters in direct contact (e.g. groping) then a first-person camera will have issues with clipping and foreshortening (assuming that the player character model is even drawn, which it usually isn't). Similarly, a third-person camera will tend to occlude the attacker behind the player character - and even if it somehow doesn't, the "sexy action" will tend to occupy only 15-20% of the available screen space (because we're using a wide FOV so that the player can effectively deal with multiple attackers).

Text-based games avoid the perspective problem entirely. They can also avoid the duration and repetition problems easily: the enemy performs a sexual attack and the authors pastes in seventeen paragraphs of text. Within 1.5s the player will get the gist of it. If they're feeling horny (or if they're curious about the characters and mechanics involved) then they can read through the whole thing. If they're not interested (or if they're already read this particular scene), then they press a single key and they're back in the action. Maybe they'll be suffering from a debuff or special limitation on their character's combat abilities, but the player hasn't been forced to sit through an unwanted cutscene/animation.

----------------------

My suggestion would be to incorporate sexual effects into combat, but keep the sexual acts as a post-combat thing. You might have a few special weapons or magic spells:

• Leather Whip - fast attack speed. Inflicts minor HP damage and moderate Pride damage.
• Burning Lust - slow-moving magic projectile with a long cast time. Inflicts minor Fire damage and heavy Inhibition damage.

Ideally, these would be available to the PC and well as NPCs. They'd be integrated into the normal combat mechanics - you could block a whip-attack with your shield, or evade the magic projectile with circle-strafing or a quick dodge-roll. These effects would also be eligible for mitigation and amplification. Completing a quest for the Church might grant you Armor of Purity (resistance to sexual attacks) or you might choose a special Perk ("Demonic Pact" or whatever) which makes you vulnerable to sexual attacks but greatly boosts your resistance to elemental damage.

The player would need to be able to track these effects. At first you could just put a "status bar" onscreen (each whip blow depletes the Pride bar; when the Pride bar is empty, your character falls to the ground and the NPC will mock you and/or initiate a sex scene). Ideally, you'd eventually get rid of the HUD stuff (because it's messy) and convey this information via in-game elements - facial expression, posture and movement animations, changes in speech patterns, etc. But that's a very ambitious goal, especially when you start thinking about non-human enemies: what's the visual difference between "regular troll" and "horny troll"?

I would restrict sexual elements in combat to mechanical effects rather than direct sexual contact (e.g. groping). The main reason is that sexual contact requires synchronized animations, which removes control from the player and disrupts the flow of gameplay (and, with poor scripting or multiple attackers, can quickly turn into permanent-stunlock). The secondary reason is that it makes assumptions about anatomy - if your character perform a "grope attack" on a 4m tall troll, you'll just be massaging its kneecaps.

You can still have "sexy moves" in combat, but use them for non-synchronized attacks. For example: your character casts the Burning Lust spell by "charging up" for a few seconds and then performing a mighty pelvic thrust in the direction of the target (which emits a "fireball" projectile in the chosen direction).

 

[Sithri]

Re: Renfield

i dunno man, you have valid points about that stuff for sure. 3d does make thing very difficult to figure out in terms of perspective because you don't really quite know how to position the camera to see everything. I think the only real way to make it work is having a fixed camera and i don't think this game will be the game to do that at all. However as long as the attacks are telegraphed and you can see most of it, i think a third person slightly angled downwards full control of camera (dark souls style) would capture most of everything pretty well

As for fetishes not being people's thing, i think that mostly to the audience that it is catered to, this shouldn't be a problem all too often. If you make everything too bland less people who like that stuff are gonna want to do anything with it. Luckily from the sound of things this game is gonna be MADE mostly by the audience so diversity will be a thing...

As for repetition, it could be circumvented by just adding random variation to the animations (would definitely require more work though but that goes without saying) and adding more action to deal with it as to make it not JUST AN ANIMATION you sit through, a big problem a lot of games seem to do (and i don't blame them because its hard to think up ways to make it interesting) making a sex attack sex or rape on the spot when they could do much more with it. For example, would think it be a cool idea to say as a female walking through a swamp seeing a big monster shake the floor in front of you and as you enter battle, leeches just fall on her and get under her clothes and try to get at her fluids, she becomes slower and weaker and occasionally needs to stop and an ecstasy meter is slowly rising and your character is still in your full control, so mid battle you need to run away for a few moments to tear them off and get back to fighting. The animations that happen would be new walking animations, new idle animations, an animation where she removes the parasites for a few seconds to add tension and strategy so you can't just get rid of them in front of the thing you're fighting. Very small down time from game play, and not enough time wasted for most people to get annoyed by (unless this happens way too often within the span of a minute).

This is however just an idea and an opinion, i don't expect this to be taken seriously. Though I do wish i could draw and animate so i can put this idea into a hobby game...

 

[afa]

Re: Renfield

I am a huge fan of having sexual related content during battles, and then have the option/need to struggle it off to return to the fight. I understand there are some people who are against it, and I had lengthy discussion about it.

Many 2d hrpg have that feature, perhaps it is simpler to accomplish in a tradition rpg battle system. As someone mentioned about, the timing is also easier to mange, flash a cg/short animation, a few tap on the keyboard is enough to carry on.

In a 3d world there will need to be animations for all the different stages of the assault so to speak. Back in Oblivion there was a mod does something similar to that.
First define a triggering condition, health/stamina threshold and then a random chance for example.
If it should trigger the attacker will first grab on to the victim, then animation will play with the attacker attempts to strip the victim.
At this point victim can struggle within a set amount of time (in the realm of seconds), struggle might also cost stamina. If victim is successful the animation disengages and fight continues.
If victim fails to struggle one piece of clothing is stripped, and then attacker work on the next (Oblivion generally used top and bottom equipment slots, so two pieces, but can be adjust to whatever works there could also be a variation where the clothing is damage during the struggle until it is broken).
After victim is naked there could be a final struggle before sex or continue directly to sex.

Another way to handle it could be have a grapple animation where the victim is say grabbed on one arm but can still attack with the other (with some sort of penalty, unable to move?), and could escalate to the next stage or struggle to get free.

 

[stuntcock42]

Re: Renfield

I am a huge fan of having sexual related content during battles...

KleptoLizard has indicated that this content isn't a high priority; I gave some reasons why it may not be appropriate for an action-focused game. Nonetheless, if you would like to see this content modded in (eventually), then I can offer a few suggestion:

• symmetry - try to plan out the system/mechanics/details in a way that allows it to be used in multiple "orientations." Your initial scenario was "female PC gets groped by NPC" - could the same scripts (with different triggers and quick-time events) be used by a male PC to grope a female NPC during combat?
  • Note: don't just say "yes." Toss out some ideas. If you've done some preparatory work, and proven that the concept is sound, then a modder might be tempted to undertake the scripting.
• modularity - it takes a lot of work to create synchronized animations involving multiple actors. Ideally, you'd want to get as much "mileage" as possible out of this work. For instance, the first-stage of the struggle animation might be reusable as an "idle" behaviour among NPCs (e.g. bar patron grabs a passing barmaid; she "struggles" briefly then "escapes" and continues her rounds). The second stage might serve as a "foreplay" animation preceding a sex scene (with the player character potentially acting out either side, depending on the story context which led up to the scene).
  • try to plan out the stages in a manner which maximizes the potential for reuse. Make some simple sketches to show the line-of-action in each stage.
• character development - players are going to be upset if their Level 99 Celestial Swordmistress can get overpowered and raped by a Level 1 Beggar. How do character stats tie into the minigame? What kind of special conditions do we need to accomodate?
  • Example: The number of "stages" within the minigame will depend on the type and quality of armor worn by the target (note: this should be symmetrical - a player character who attempts to grope an armored NPC could face a lengthy minigame).
  • Example: Persistent magical spells will operate normally during the minigame. A player might actually allow an attacker to start a grope-attack, knowing that their Vampiric Aura will kill him long before he's figured out how to remove their breastplate.
• mechanics - players typically expect an invulnerability interval after taking damage; stunlock is usually a sign of lazy work by the developers. What sort of mechanics would you suggest? (e.g. invulnerability window, enemy gets knocked back or knocked down by a successful escape, player gains enhanced movement speed after escaping, stun/daze effect on all nearby enemies after escaping, etc)
• acceptance - Presumably there will be some players who want to lose the escape minigame. How do you accommodate them? Do they simply step away from the keyboard and wait for the challenge to fail naturally, or is there a "submit" option?
• outcome - What happens if the player loses the minigame (intentionally or otherwise) and goes through the sex scene? If it's a storyline battle then we can assume that the author/modder will fill in the details (e.g. GOR scene, PC gets chained up and must escape, PC gets corrupted but can continue their journey). But what if it's just a "random encounter" (nameless bandit or whatever)? What's the "default outcome"?
  • Possible answer: we whisk the PC back to the nearest safe area to let them recover. In narrative terms, the PC has been found and rescued by some benevolent force (guardian angel, wandering merchant, magical hearthstone, etc).
  • Possible answer: leave the PC where they fell. Apply a temporary condition ("Defiled"? "Stinky"?) which causes hostile NPCs to ignore the PC but severely impairs combat abilities. After a few seconds the PC will stand up and can walk away from the scene. The narrative/gameplay intent is that the player will retreat and regroup, perhaps returning for another attack after the debuff has expired (or maybe they'll just avoid that area until they're much stronger). Enemy hostility would resume immediately if the PC attacks anyone, so if the player wants to see their character get overpowered and raped repeatedly then can do so.
• contingency planning - try to anticipate all of the ways that the idea can fail, and then offer potential solutions.
  • The target's allies (or town guards, or wandering monsters) kill the attacker halfway through the animation.
    • Make the participants immune to outside damage. Note: this option presents a narrative problem. Imagine that the target's friend or lover is standing nearby. Why would they stand by and allow it?
    • Freeze time for everyone except the participants. Same narrative problem as above. Might also interfere with unrelated scripts and with pathfinding behaviour. But it does have the advantage that you wouldn't see a bunch of idiots fruitlessly slashing their swords through the scene (which would certainly ruin any sense of danger or eroticism that you're trying to establish!)
    • Let the attacker die; the script should treat this as a "defender victory" outcome w/r/t the minigame.
      • Consequence: the player character should not attempt to force themselves on an NPC who has friends nearby.
  • One or both participants have the wrong shape (e.g. not biped, not human-size, no arms).
    • The script should prevent the minigame from occuring in such scenarios; "compatible anatomy" is a necessary precondition (just like "target character's Stamina < 20%").
    • A special "silly" animation will play in this case. The attacker will move towards their target, flail around confusedly for a few seconds, then give up and resume normal combat.
    • Special case: what if the skeletons and animations are compatible, but the genders don't align? Do we try to keep the animations neutral so that we need only one set for all possible combinations, or do we include gender-specific animations (e.g. femdom footjob) with scripted preconditions?

 

[KleptoLizard]

Re: Renfield

This is good.
I'm really happy that more people are joining the discussion.

 

[afa]

Re: Renfield

Well since it was low priority I only gave out example on what happened in other games or what could happen. A overview on how the framework could flow. But to really get down into more details. Sure there could be a few more things.
I based most of these ideas on mostly hrpgs and TES mods, sort of like what is already out in the wild rather than it being something completely new.

Animations, it is hard, it is difficult, and glory to the people who make them. It might not too look nice at first, it might be missing a few transition frames, it might not flow perfectly well, but if this is going to be a 3D game with aims and goals that were set a few pages back, it will need them. Combinations of them, man, woman, monsters, pair them up, 3 some, different positions, different context, gangbang, etc.

Again this is mostly a framework on how things should flow not necessarily what happens in terms of narrative or story telling. It definitely could use some tie ins, but a little more on that later.

Who can trigger:
Even in hrpg that has battle sex not all enemies need to be able to engage in sex with the PC. Likewise in reverse not all enemies could be jump on by the PC. In this case we can lock out all enemies that we don't have animation for. Bandits? Yes, an evil-magic animated potato? Maybe not.

When can it trigger:
Is this a 1v1 fight? A group battle? Does PC have allies present? Should the attacker care that his victim still have allies standing? If the player is the attacker, should he have a choice to go for it anyways even if there are more than enemy present?
The lazy way would be only when all allies are combat disabled could the event try to start, and multiple enemies could go after multiple PC/allies; the reverse could happen too of course with PC and company on the assault.
But it would probably be more dynamic if the attackers are more opportunistic in their assault attempts and allies could help with the struggling if they can. In a larger scale fight we can have multiple assault attempts going on at the same time as well.
Triggering condition could be health/stamina/duration/lust/clothing depending on what suit the combat engine and other gameworld elements. Pretty self explanatory. By the way clothing/clothing destruction/exposure could be another complex system all on its own.

Struggle/Hostility management:
The struggling should not be a difficult or a lengthy process. Most hrpg has an "action" for struggle when grab, and as I mentioned earlier Oblivion mod also has something similar based on clothing and stamina cost. Going back to having allies, if they are available they might be able to offer help, attack the attacker could either damage them or loosen their grip. Attacking the victim could either damage or make it harder to resist. Either side if were to be defeated/kill during the struggle phase fail their respective action and dies/sex trigger or fade to defeat event if needed.
Also the "stronger" side, either by levels/stats, should have an advantage or perhaps hard to be grapple to begin with.
To be really devious we can have the struggling gets harder the more times a victim successfully resist during a fight.
In the case of "last person standing" we can have multiple foe gang up on one victim to make it harder to resist.

Sex and post events:
Again depending on the way combat engine works sex could mark the end of an encounter or could have the struggling keep on during this phase where the victim work on getting the attack off (perhaps sex induces damage on victim) or have the fight continues if both sides are still combat capable afterward, but perhaps a penalty on the one who got fucked.
Can also go with a X count system where if someone has been fucked X number of times in a fight it is consider lost.
Events that happens afterward could be pretty much anything that the story needs for an story fight or a story trigger, it could also be a dynamic event for regular "random encounter". Maybe the victor takes the loser back to some hideout/home/jail. For PC victim maybe further gor event, enslave/jailed/need to escape, trigger the start of another quest, wake up in wilderness, wake up in the same spot but attackers left, rescued back in town, etc.

Exception and story ties:
The system would be best if it can also handle exception to the rule or use it to its advantage. Perhaps a scripted fight where PC is always going to lose and get fuck or in reverse where the only way to beat some boss is to fuck them instead of fighting normally.