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MajorKagami

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Re: Renfield

so if what I'm seeing and reading is right. your pretty much saying your going to make your own Oblivion/Skyrim with blackjack and hookers.hehe

the difficulty installing the mods for it and I agree 100% that all the mods are after you get them working are just forced into the game. the game doesn't truly have that oh we aren't going to kill you we are going to rape you and then maybe kill you or just rape you some more feel to it. I wish you all the luck in the world on this game I'll be waiting to throw money at you, if you can get it even 1/2 way close to game play like Oblivion/Skyrim but with real H it will be amazing.
 

stuntcock42

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Re: Renfield

You don't need to follow 3 hours of tutorials just to have sex with a barmaid.
If you're making a game in which sex is a prominent feature then it's useful to consider the elapsed-time-before-sex metric and what it means for gameplay.
  • AAA RPG style. Multiple hours. The player character may need to track down a character, earn their trust, establish a relationship, travel with them, etc... with romantic elements being gradually established. It's difficult to write content for an ongoing sexual relationship (which will tend to involve complications about families, finances, etc), so the writers tend to either freeze the characters into a permanent "infatuation" stage or just contrive to separate them (e.g. badguy kidnaps girlfriend, you must rescue her, then the game ends).
    • Sex can serve as a long-term goal for the player, but it will be preceded by a lot of character development moments. These moments (and/or the game mechanics, such as swordplay or cover-based shooting) must be strong enough to sustain the player's interest.
    • The "production value" of sex scenes is not especially important, and sexual contact will usually be implied rather than exposed. What's important is how the characters feel about it, how it shapes their subsequent interactions with each other, and what it teaches the player about the characters (example: Garrus in Mass Effect 3).
  • H-RPG style. Ten minutes. A new character will be introduced and established; the character usually fits into a standard archetype (e.g. compassionate healer, tomboy thief). Character development is not expected in this genre, and all major NPCs are expected to be sexually available. The player simply follows the linear story, decides which NPC(s) to seduce, and chooses "Yes" when prompted.
    • Sex scenes serve as a constant short-term incentive for the player. The actual game mechanics (eg. random encounters, menu-driven combat) tend to be antiquated and unfun, and the writing tends to rely on well-worn tropes.
    • The content of sex scenes is very important: quality of artwork, fetishes presented, sub/dom/con nature of scenes, voiceover, etc... This is a crucial selling point for the game.
    • Sex-related difficulty should be minimal. Players know that they may need to read a FAQ in order to find 100% of the scenes, but if they need a FAQ to reach 1% then they're going to be pissed off.
    • Sex is the endgame. Once the player has unlocked all of the scenes, the game has minimal replay value.
  • SLG style. The player decides. It may be possible to have a sex scene within the first minute of gameplay, but this decision will carry consequences (e.g. the player character just raped someone and now he's perceived as a monster and there's a bounty on his head). It's usually possible to establish relationships which allow sex-on-demand, but the actual endgame scenario ("winning") is defined in terms of game mechanics (e.g. building up a prosperous farm).
    • SLGs focus on allowing and acknowledging player choice, and they work best when the same principle applies within the sex scenes.
    • It's infeasible to develop custom artwork and VO for each possible variation, so player choices are usually reflected in text. For example: a scene that normally ends with "I love you <playerName>!" could instead end with "That's all you've got, wimp?" or "Thank you, master." -- with the special variants being activated through gameplay which occurs outside of the sex scenes.
    • The game content needs to strike a balance between freedom and specificity. Extreme freedom would mean that you can fuck anybody, but every sex scene has the same content (except for <playerName> and <npcName>). Extreme specificity would mean that only one NPC is fuckable, but they have a 30-paragraph scene.
      • The Oblivion sex stuff tends to opt for "freedom" - you can fuck anybody, but ten seconds later they'll be talking about mudcrabs. There's no meaning or consequence, so SLG players will be disappointed.
    • As with H-RPGs, players will expect to find sex scenes of reasonable quality and variety. However, the SLG game mechanics ought to retain the player's interest, so the interval between sex scenes can be longer.
  • Sex simulator. Seconds. The player launched the game because they want to see something fuck. If the game includes dialog, characterization, or persistent characters then these should be optional extras rather than core features.
    • Control is a crucial selling point. The player should be allowed to adjust camera angles, speed/timing, and scene composition (e.g. hide the background, make the male character transparent, put the female character in a policewoman's uniform, etc).
    • Verisimilitude is the second key ingredient. The art style and color palette should be consistent, models should be detailed, and lots of effort must be put into rigging and animation. Extensive testing is needed in order to squash any bugs (e.g. imperfect animation loops) which could impair the experience.
Key question: assume that a player has just installed a complete copy of Renfield (not a beta) and that they're primarily interested in sexual gratification. How long will they need to play, on average, before they encounter a sex scene? Would an experienced player be able to find sex content more quickly?

===============================

The reason that I'm bringing all of this up is because I don't understand the design decisions behind your game. Renfield doesn't look like a sex simulator. The H-RPG framework doesn't really apply (because this is a sandbox game rather than a linear one). You don't have enough resources to make a AAA-style game with a heavy narrative focus.

The only category which seems appropriate is SLG, which passes an initial sanity-check: you do fantasy RPG stuff (e.g. explore a dungeon) and some of the outcomes will involve sex scenes (e.g. seduce the bandit leader and have sex with him; slay the bandit leader, rescue the captured princess, escort her home, and then sex her up; pay the bandit leader 100 gold to look the other way while you sex up the captured princess). Your choices will dictate your future opportunities to interact with various NPCs, and also determine who your character is as a person.

The easiest way to incorporate player choice is via text. I've seen some 2d RPGMaker games which focus heavily on text (that is - fullscreen paragraphs rather than one-sentence-at-a-time dialog boxes). But you can't incorporate that sort of narration into a 3d game without completely breaking the experience. Instead, you need to convey most of the information audiovisually.

Let's imagine that we already have a "sex with rescued princess" scene in the game, and now we want to create the "sex with captured princess" alternate scenario. We'll need to add some chains to the scene and rig them to her skeleton, swap out the animation (reverse cowgirl isn't appropriate for a rape scene), adjust her facial expression so that she appears frightened and confused, create a tattered clothing model (an alt texture could suffice if you're lazy), setup a dirty-looking cave area (or maybe a prison cell), reduce the lighting, record some new VO, etc...

And then you need to figure out how the characters (e.g. the princess' brother) will react when they find out that the player character raped the princess, and then you need to code in all of this new dialog (and maybe a new combat encounter with the prince and his bodyguards, and the prince should probably have a unique sword which can be looted, and ...) This is an unreasonable workload for a 1-person dev team.

===============================

Working in 3d (vs text or sprites) means that everything takes longer, so the natural tendency is to skimp on content. Unfortunately, less content means fewer opportunities for player choice, which is the main engagement factor in a SLG.

If I want challenging but fun combat, I'll play Dark Souls.
If I want a complex and responsive narrative in which I get to have sex with ladies if I play my cards right, I'll play Alpha Protocol.
If I want an uncomplicated romp in which my character is surrounded by attractive and fuckable NPCs, I'll play Artificial Academy.
If I'm willing to sink some time into creating a character and building relationships with NPCs, in order to unlock some very creative and extensive text-based sex scenes, I'll play Corruption of Champions.
If I just want to explore a fantasy world while remaining firmly in-character (no expository cutscene bullshit) I'll play Skyrim.
If I want to finish a quest and then be "rewarded" with an awkward 3d sex scene, I'll play The Witcher.
If I want to struggle with a terrible UI in order to have crazy adventures in a randomly-generated fantasy world, I'll play Dwarf Fortress.
If I want _______ , I'll play Renfield.

Fill in the blank. What makes this game special? Does it simply combine a bunch of familiar elements (e.g. hack-n-slash combat, fantasy tropes, stat progression, loot system, dialog trees, and sex scenes) into something excellent? Does it use sex exclusively for tittilation, or is it expected to play a role in character development? Are the visuals supposed to tell the story on their own, or will they just serve as the backdrop for text paragraphs which describe the sexy action? Is the sexy content expected to sustain the player's interest, or is it just an embellishment on an otherwise-functional RPG experience?

Note: I tried playing the 2d classic Renfield (0.18) but it didn't provide much insight. I saw a single sex animation (with no context whatsoever), random battles against characters from The Romance of Three Kingdoms, and zero dialog.
WE, together, can create a better game than them.
Here's an example of a recent project where several ULMF folks were working on a game. The basic game concept was well-proven, and there was plenty of content. The effort fell apart because the technical framework (e.g. development tools and the code structure) were not amenable to collaborative development. The only way for development to proceed was for one person to act as a coordinator (splicing improved code segments into the new "official" version); individual users couldn't benefit from new features and bugfixes unless they were willing to open up the game code and apply patches.

Elder Scrolls games may suffer from incompatibility and instability, but the tools are accessible (even to amateur creators who can't code) and it's possible to merge the work of a large team into a single usable product.

What kind of tools are you using to develop Renfield? How do you plan to solicit contributions from other people (e.g. code repository, public filehosts, email attachments)? How do you plan to merge and test the contributed content?
 

GTA89

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Re: Renfield

Hi, interesting project but there's something I wonder about the sexual content. Will there be GOR scenes or a corruption system?
 
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KleptoLizard

KleptoLizard

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Re: Renfield

So sandbox fantasy game where you play as a girl doing... what exactly? I assume there's going to be some sort of basic plot or goal involved along with all the smut. And is she pregnant in that last pic in the OP?
You play as a male by default. Yes, she's pregnant.
The goal is prevent the Duchy of Fenwick from being destroyed by a dragon.
Pretty standard save-the-realm stuff.
 
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KleptoLizard

KleptoLizard

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Re: Renfield

Hi, interesting project but there's something I wonder about the sexual content. Will there be GOR scenes or a corruption system?
No GOR,yet. But there will be a corruption system.
Characters will have a variety of hidden attributes governing their emotions.

I'll be focusing on a male player and maledom themes initially.
Eventually I intend to include as wide a variety of themes and roles as possible.

In particular femdom themes are conspicuously missing from H-games.
Every female protagonist has sex primarily through losing in combat or selling her body.
It would be nice to have a game where the woman had the choice of being the aggressor.
Or just having a normal sex drive without being the "Ahegao Whore".
 
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KleptoLizard

KleptoLizard

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Re: Renfield

The Oblivion sex stuff tends to opt for "freedom" - you can fuck anybody, but ten seconds later they'll be talking about mudcrabs.
This.
 

afa

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Re: Renfield

If you are completely fixate on having a male protagonist I won't say you should do otherwise, but I think a female protagonist with a character that is clearly developed throughout the story similar (but more in depth) to a hrpg but set in an open sandbox type world like a oblivion/skyrim/fallout has a lot of appeal.
 
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KleptoLizard

KleptoLizard

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Re: Renfield

If you are completely fixate on having a male protagonist I won't say you should do otherwise, but I think a female protagonist with a character that is clearly developed throughout the story similar (but more in depth) to a hrpg but set in an open sandbox type world like a oblivion/skyrim/fallout has a lot of appeal.
I'm not fixed on a male protagonist. I'm simply going to focus on the male role first.
Like Stuntcock has pointed out in his posts, if I spread my attention across too many elements at once then they will all turn out half-done.



There will eventually be a female player. Just not in the initial version.
 
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KleptoLizard

KleptoLizard

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Re: Renfield

Key question: assume that a player has just installed a complete copy of Renfield (not a beta) and that they're primarily interested in sexual gratification. How long will they need to play, on average, before they encounter a sex scene? Would an experienced player be able to find sex content more quickly?
They wouldn't have to wait long.
Finding and capturing the lowest level Witch will be pretty simple.

Experienced players will cover more ground quickly.
But I hope to release updates (which will be free) that keep the world interesting after multiple playthroughs.
 
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KleptoLizard

KleptoLizard

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Re: Renfield

What kind of tools are you using to develop Renfield? How do you plan to solicit contributions from other people (e.g. code repository, public filehosts, email attachments)? How do you plan to merge and test the contributed content?
The models for the Witches were made in DAZ3D. Blender is being used for original 3d objects. Lastly, Unity for the actual game.

All 3 of these programs are free. Plus no matter what program you prefer to use making your own assets, there is always a plugin or export setting that will make is usable for other programs.
So any content creators should have an easy time creating resources for Renfield. They probably won't even have to learn any new software.

If you have any content, of any kind, that you'd like to add just tell me here in the thread.
 

stuntcock42

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Re: Renfield

The models for the Witches were made in DAZ3D. Blender is being used for original 3d objects. Lastly, Unity for the actual game.

All 3 of these programs are free. Plus no matter what program you prefer to use making your own assets, there is always a plugin or export setting that will make is usable for other programs.
So any content creators should have an easy time creating resources for Renfield. They probably won't even have to learn any new software.

If you have any content, of any kind, that you'd like to add just tell me here in the thread.
That's good news. Unity is a solid platform and is very amenable to compatibility testing and debugging. If you're using standard components then your pool of potential contributors will be a bit restricted (because they'll need to know C# or JS in order to create Quest content, rather than just playing with menus in the Skyrim Creation Kit). On the plus side, it means that you (the creator) retain control over your codebase and you can ensure that your game is stable.

Have you done team-based software development before? I ask because you seem to be focused on the "people sending stuff to you" side of things, without concern for the "you sending updated files to co-workers" angle. Example:
  1. I create a 3d model (e.g. chainmail pants) and rig it to the standard biped skeleton. I send this file to you.
  2. You discover that the standard skeleton is inadequate for your game (e.g. because it's plantigrade, and any digitigrade characters end up looking like crap).
  3. You create a new skeleton and a set of animations for it (e.g. idle, walking, fighting).
  4. I see that a new version of the game has been released, and I'd like to update my model to work with both skeletons. You post the file in the ULMF thread.
  5. Another modder decides to modify the second skeleton to support animated tails (for demons or catgirls or whatever) and provides a download link.
  6. Now I'm uncertain what to do. Do I ignore the new contribution, since KleptoLizard hasn't officially accepted it yet? Do I work with it, since it seems obviously superior? Do I need to add a "tail hole" in my chainmail pants so that they'll look correct (and if so - how big of a hole - should I aim for "cat tail" or "dragon tail")?
  7. Meanwhile, the thread is being spammed by contributors commenting on each others' files (e.g. compatbility warnings), suggestions from beta players, questions and comments ("please add my personal fetish kthxbye"), and so on. It's easy to overlook a new file, and it becomes difficult to identify the "most recent version of everything."
  8. This is why we use code repositories. Even for a solo project, it helps you to organize your content (and safeguard it against accidental overwrite/deletion) and allows you to rollback when you encounter a major bug or compatibility problem.
Characters will have a variety of hidden attributes governing their emotions.
Go ahead and describe them! ULMF posters have a fair amount of experience with game mechanics in H-games, and they may be able to offer useful feedback and suggestions. For instance, the recent Artificial Academy game had at least two variables, so it was possible for a character to be [[willing to have sex with you]] despite the fact that they [[hate your guts]].

Your choice of systems influences the kinds of content that you can create. For example - should characters have a global "submissiveOrDominant" statistic, or should they have a separate "submissiveness" number for their relationship with each other character that they've met? The first system could allow a player to "corrupt" an NPC (and then watch that same NPC become violent/promiscuous to others). The second system would allow a player to become sexually dominant towards an NPC while the NPC remains dominant towards other NPCs, which might fit the story better (e.g. you can conquer the Dark Queen and make her your sex slave, but doing so doesn't magically transform her into a timid little lady - she's still going to shout at her guards and insult the servants).

It's important to get this kind of feedback early, so that you can incorporate it into your design before you've written a huge amount of NPC behaviour scripts, quest definitions, etc... It can also give you a boost in creativity - you realize that "hey! This mechanic makes it possible to setup some NPCs in a jealous love-triangle relationship!" and then you rush out to add that to the game to see how it works, and eventually you build up a whole quest around it (e.g. "Catch Alice and Bob having sex and then tell Charlie about it and see what happens.")
 
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KleptoLizard

KleptoLizard

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Re: Renfield

Unity is a solid platform and is very amenable to compatibility testing and debugging.
Definitely. The ability to test run without a full build is amazing.
I'd worked with the BigWorld engine before and it was nightmarish after every change to build my client AND the server for each and every minor test.

If you're using standard components then your pool of potential contributors will be a bit restricted (because they'll need to know C# or JS in order to create Quest content, rather than just playing with menus in the Skyrim Creation Kit).
I'll handle most of the coding myself. Artists are free to be artists, animators to be animators, writers to be writers.
It will actually be easier to create content for Renfield than to mod for Elder Scrolls.

Using your example of the chainmail pants: It used to be that if someone made a new version of a piece of equipment, they would have to go the further step of adding it in the construction kit.
They would have to either create a new item class or just have the mesh and texture overwrite the vanilla chainmail.
If they made it a new item then they'd have to find a way to make it available to the player. (Add it to a shop, make a mob drop it, etc.)

Now all you'd have to do is make the pants and send them.
DAZ has a method of intelligently auto-fitting them to a humanoid model.
Then you can manually fine tune the seams if there are any irregularities or tears.
So content contributors don't need to do ANY coding or scripting.

On the plus side, it means that you (the creator) retain control over your codebase and you can ensure that your game is stable.
Yeah that's pretty important. I'm a very conservative, cautious coder.
Stability over everything else.
 

Acac

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Re: Renfield

Hey man, your game looks really interesting so far! Keep it up, mate! =)

I think your game rolled around just in time. I think modding for Bethesda games has finally become a bust. The problem is, (I think) Bethesda threw modders under the bus by adding voiced conversations into Skyrim, instead of using text conversations, like Fallout and Oblivion. Don't get me wrong, there are some really creative stuff for Skyrim. The Sangine's Debauchery mod was pretty awesome! But, that's pretty much the limit on how far Skyrim mods can go, without text dialogue, I reckon. We've all seen more fleshed out stuff in Oblivion and New Vegas. And now with Elder's Scrolls Online being a thing, I don't have a whole lot of hope anymore for pr0n in Bethesda games.

That being said, it's not really elder's scrolls that your game reminds me of. Your game actually makes me think of Mount & Blade, or it's sequel, Warband. Those games rocked! I love the single player, but the only thing I wished was some sexual content. They didn't have the be the centre of the stage, but if the post-battle text of you getting captured had some sexual implications in the text, or if you could let your men have their way with female captives (not depicted, but just a choice made), or if roaming lords demanded to spend a night with you, the game would have been so much more interesting!

I'm not saying your game has to be as fleshed out or handle as many on screen npcs as Mount & Blade, but if the tone and gameplay kind of went in that direction, I think it would be great! :D
 
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KleptoLizard

KleptoLizard

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Re: Renfield

Your game actually makes me think of Mount & Blade, or it's sequel, Warband. Those games rocked! I love the single player, but the only thing I wished was some sexual content. They didn't have the be the centre of the stage, but if the post-battle text of you getting captured had some sexual implications in the text, or if you could let your men have their way with female captives (not depicted, but just a choice made), or if roaming lords demanded to spend a night with you, the game would have been so much more interesting!
I feel this way about every game.
Mount & Blade is an awesome series. I guess people didn't like the low-res models and never made any H-mods for it besides simple nude mods.
But you're right: There are 1,000 different situations where sex scenes could be realistically integrated into a game like that.



Renfield will be a series that eventually grows to include both adventure and strategy elements.
It will start very simple with just the player and maybe a summoned skeleton or other minion.
But gradually I'll move towards being able to field a party, then a small warband, then larger forces.
All in good time.
 

Acac

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Re: Renfield

All in good time, mate. =)
 
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KleptoLizard

KleptoLizard

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Re: Renfield

I think your game rolled around just in time. I think modding for Bethesda games has finally become a bust. The problem is, (I think) Bethesda threw modders under the bus by adding voiced conversations into Skyrim, instead of using text conversations, like Fallout and Oblivion. Don't get me wrong, there are some really creative stuff for Skyrim. The Sangine's Debauchery mod was pretty awesome! But, that's pretty much the limit on how far Skyrim mods can go, without text dialogue, I reckon. We've all seen more fleshed out stuff in Oblivion and New Vegas. And now with Elder's Scrolls Online being a thing, I don't have a whole lot of hope anymore for pr0n in Bethesda games.
Yeah I think the sun is slowly setting on the golden age of Bethesda H-mods.

When a new game comes out, it can take a year or more until some coding whiz devises a script extender. Then the basic framework and core animations also have a delay. From there it's a matter of modders slowly rolling out the situational mods.



It's a huge headache compared to what regular mods require. (i.e. a retextured axe)
Only a few mods like Sanguine's Debauchery, Claudia's Little Secret or Ichabod's Player Slave Encounters really fleshed out the concept of integrating gameplay, storytelling and H-content.
 

afa

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Re: Renfield

Not sure why there's talk of mods without text dialog, because they totally exist.
Adult story telling mods are not uncommon in Skyrim, the length, extend, and depth of content is arguable depending on what you are looking for.
Various frameworks, addons linked to prostitution, crime. and combat also exist.

Although few of them are truly foolproof, and only a few could be consider complete, but set it against the time and effort it takes to make a new game altogether I think they are a fair comparison.

You won't have to go far to see people criticizing the elder scroll engine and scripting technique. Biggest offender being junk scripts will more than likely cause your save to eventually become incompatible with newer version of mods.
With more common and popular software like Unity that exist it will be interesting to see how this will turn out.
 
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KleptoLizard

KleptoLizard

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Re: Renfield

I've been experimenting with this dungeon creator tool:



These huge dungeons will be trimmed down.
But I like the layouts.

The site is
 

Deviancy

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Re: Renfield

When you get to the point of having a female protagonist, this game will be pure win.

I must have installed, uninstalled, and re-installed Skyrim at least a dozen times this year because, while the Sexlab framework is solid, many of the mods that rely on it can bring up numerous issues. The first issue that bugs me the most, saves going bad. The second issue, once in awhile the game will crash due to a virtual C+ issue, it depends on the mod. The third issue, sometimes the game will just freeze right before the animation kicks in.

The weirdest thing, when the game crashes, unlike other games I've had that crash, it doesn't generate an error pop up window, and it doesn't list an error under the Event viewer either. In theory, I can say the game isn't crashing, it is just exiting without consent since no error logs are being generated.
 
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KleptoLizard

KleptoLizard

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Re: Renfield

When you get to the point of having a female protagonist, this game will be pure win.
I'm looking forward to that feature as well.
While the female path will feature rape-with-defeat themes, I feel like there is a complete shortage of femdom themes in H-games.
So that will be a major focus.
 
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