The Ranting/Debate Thread

[Hentaispider]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

...Do you even bother reading what I write? I never said I don't like radiation. Do you have statistics for Denver? I couldn't find any, but I'm willing to bet that thousands of people get cancer every year. As to determining the causes...Good fucking luck. Where exactly did I say that the source is correct? I NEVER DID!

I'm not saying this source is unbiased

You come pretty damn close to saying that it is biased or down right lie.

 

[Quartz]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

You could opt out of going through the backscatter and choose to get a pat down instead if you were concerned about radiation. Though if somebody was that concerned about the radiation, they would do well not to fly.. Or live in general, because radiation is pretty much unavoidable. I mean, I understand what Hooker is saying about that particular bit of radiation being the one that potentially causes cancer, but this always strikes me as a silly side argument to make the machines seem scarier than they are.

Mind you, I'm no fan of the TSA. I just don't think the backscatter machines/enhanced patdowns(Or whatever Orwellian term they use for the search) are that big of a deal, even if I can see why some people would object. I will say this though, I find it telling that they have been selectively doing searches like that with racial profiling for a long time, but only now that it slightly inconveniences everybody does this get traction as being unreasonable.

 

[Wonderboy]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

...As to determining the causes...Good fucking luck.

And this has been my point for much of the debate. Because we have a very hard time figuring out what causes cancers, and to what degree, making an estimate like the one that was presented is absolutely ridiculous. WE CAN'T KNOW!

About the source thing, I meant my own source. I'm sorry about that not being clearer.

Unknown caught what I was trying to say, congrats, give a hand to Hooker will ya?

 

[Hentaispider]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

And this has been my point for much of the debate. Because we have a very hard time figuring out what causes cancers, and to what degree, making an estimate like the one that was presented is absolutely ridiculous. WE CAN'T KNOW!

About the source thing, I meant my own source. I'm sorry about that not being clearer.

Unknown caught what I was trying to say, congrats, give a hand to Hooker will ya?

But we do know what causes cancer. We know radiation can cause cancer. We know tobacco causes cancer. It's called statistics. Of course we can't know. That's why it's an estimate.

...I was going to simply say that I'm done with this debate, but...fuck you.

 

[Newbie]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Here are the big issues to be dealt with, as it seems to me:

Privacy: When they first announced the scanners the TSA said "Don't worry, the pictures aren't that good, it's not like we can see anything." Then some of the pictures got out and the public decided they were good enough, and this was unacceptable. The TSA said "Don't worry, these machines don't have a hard drive, it's not like we can save the pictures, it's fine." And then it turned out that there totally was, and you could connect the scanner to other devices and do whatever you want with the pictures.

Rights: The fourth amendment guarantees us freedom from any unreasonable search and seizure. In most cases this requires probable cause, or some manner of evidence. In the airport it does not.

Security: People want to feel safe. It's nearly impossible for them to actually be safe, but they want to feel like they are. Maybe if we were a touch more public about the intelligence community's counter-terrorism successes we would rendered this whole debate nul. There has not been a successful attack on American soil since 9-11. The attacks that have made it to the airport were the poorly thought out actions of individuals, not cells, and often they are foiled by the stupidity of the perpetrators. This is not as well know as it ought to be.

 

[OAMP]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Most of the problem would go away if the TSA actually worked to maintain a good reputation.... but no, its almost as if they take joy in be rude...

 

[Wonderboy]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Ok, I'm not going to discuss/rant about the radiation issue anymore, I guess you and I just have differing opinions about how advanced and accurate modern science has gotten.

Ok, now that that's over with, the real debate

Most airport security isn't very effective, but as it is now, it's all the layers that make people do stupid shit, or scare them away. Each individual test, Check-in, luggage scans, metal detectors, and the second check when entering the international section of most airports. By their own they're not very good, but they make perpetrators nervous and likely to slip up. Most times when someone's caught trying to bring something they shouldn't you'll see the statements saying something like: "Security guard David D. Davidson noticed that the perp. seemed very nervous and twitchy."

Of course, in my honest opinion, someone should just make an algorithm that searches for discrepancies from a normal humans skin. If the photos are really that good, then there should be no problem making the software spot the difference between skin and something on the outside. Sure people with catheters and similar will still have to have someone look at those pictures, but they more often than not get a patdown or similar anyways.

And I'm fairly sure we have the technology to combine this with for example a heat camera to search for temperature differences. And then you could add a... Hold on, I'm gonna go think about this for a bit.

 

[Obeliskos]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Granted, the radiation is minute and unless you fly everyday or something, you won't be cancer, but the fact is they're introducing potentially harmful things instead of completely solving the issue.

Thank god, I've been worried about being cancer as a result of these security regulations.

 

[DarkFire1004]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Oh man, that was so funny. I can't believe no one pointed that ou-

I'ma be a supervillain!

 

[Kusanagi]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Conversation my friends and I were having wound up on the subject of rape vs murder.
I bowed out then, but I couldn't stop thinking about it.


Rape vs. Murder..... I've never been raped nor have I ever (to my knowledge) known anyone who was raped, so I don't know how deep the mental scars go.

I've also never known (to my knowledge) anyone who was murdered.

I mean, I can see how each could be worse than the other, it really depends on your viewpoint is the problem.

Gah. I keep trying to sit here and come up with arguments for each, but I keep feeling like a total ass-clown no matter which way I go. It's difficult to really debate which is worse than the other for me, because it really comes down to human emotion in the end. I mean, if I say murder is worse than rape, that little guy in my head says, "Nice going, dummy. Now we just sit back and wait for the rape victims or people who have known rape victims to come around and say 'oh, so you'd LIKE to be raped? IS THAT IT?'" On the other side of the argument, if I were to say that rape is worse than murder, the little guy in my head says, "Oh, you're a fucking genius. Now you get to have your in-box flooded with people who have had loved ones murdered, saying 'How'd you like it if I murdered YOUR mom, HUH?'"

Now, the logical, rational part of my brain KNOWS nobody here would do that, because we're all rational and intelligent people. Nobody here would feel that I was trying to belittle rape or murder, and would understand that, yes, I know that each of them is a horrible, horrible thing and neither should happen to anyone. Still, as I said before, I just feel like a total ass-clown for trying to debate between the two, because they BOTH are fucking horrible in their own right.

On the one hand, we have rape. It mentally scars the victim for life, and can lead to a wide range of problems, from just mistrusting others, all the way to suicide.
On the other hand, murder. The victim has been ripped from the lives of people who care about him/her suddenly, and now there's a hole in their lives.

I mean, honestly, just thinking about it here and now, perhaps the punishment for them both should be the same.

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Both are horrible twisted acts. One simply kills a person, the other scars them mentally (and perhaps physically as well) for life. I really don't have any evidence here, or true arguments, all I know is that both are horrible acts meant to cause pain and suffering.

 

[Hentaispider]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

There are lots of things that can scar for life, mentally. Basically any form of abuse can do that. On the other hand, there are probably some people who, after being raped, can more or less just get on with their lives after a few years. Human mind is pretty adaptable after all. And, assuming the criminal gets caught, a raped woman or man can see that justice happens, sort of. Ever heard of a murder victim getting on with their life? No, Jesus doesn't count. He was executed, not murdered.

My point is that while rape can and most likely will cause scarring, death is final. You could therefore argue that there can be no worse crime. Now here's the interesting thing: I don't think most of us agree with that. I don't really have an opinion, just some food for thought.

 

[Nunu]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

its really an unknowable.

regardless the finality could be an advantage in deaths case, after all there are things such as fates worse than death.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

There's popularly 4 different kinds of rapists: Power Reassurance, Power Assertive, Anger Retaliatory, and Anger Excitation. There's also different legal levels of rape that are usually used by each.

If you're trying to make the argument that a power reassurance rapist is worse than death, that's ludicrous. Usually low self-esteem and feel like they're actually developing a relationship and will actually stop if fought back against. A popular case I recall was a guy labeled as a "nice guy rapist" who would sneak into peoples apartment buildings, tie the woman to the bed and would romance them for a bit first, actually talking to them and everything, and even the sex wasn't forceful. He was reassure them that they did nothing wrong and he wasn't going to hurt them and would even ask if the bindings were too tight. One girl had said they were, so when he loosened them, she grabbed a pair of scissors and swung at him, but because she was still tied, it was hard to arch, and she stabbed herself in the thigh. He retied her hand, went into her bathroom, dressed her wound and took care of her and said "I'm sorry this happened to you," and didn't rape her. He even snuck in on the same woman twice, and when she had told him in anger, he apologized and left her alone without raping her. Victims who were interviewed said if he wasn't a rapist, he'd be the exact type of guy they'd want to date.

On the other hand, in the same group sessions, there's a guy who broke into a womans apartment forcefully with a gun and 2 friends. When the friends took turns and raped her and his turn came up, he couldn't get it up, so he decided to rape her with a fireplace poker instead.

Depends if you're talking mental or physical. Who's the worse person based on how much damage they do, or the one who gets more from the damage they do, although that's usually proportional, but not always.

 

[Luppikun]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

If every rapist was like the Nice Guy Rapist, would rape be as much of a problem? people would learn to just fight back a little and they'd be left alone.

And don't fireplace pokers have a HOOK at the end???

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

They commonly do, but the distance between the tip and the hook often vary. And if I recall, power reassurance rapists are usually the most popular by far.

I didn't understand some rape defense teachings where they told the person it was ok to give up and sort of let it happen. I guess that's just so you don't blame yourself, but when the most popular rapist is the guy who might slap you a bit and leave you alone just for chucking an elbow or two, it boggles me to say "let them."

Though it is true that some of the higher level rapists will actually become more and more excited from how much they punish you for fighting back, there's a chance that those ones will end up killing you just for the fun of it anyway.

 

[Exofluke]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Ah, Murder versus Rape.

For the most part, I'm with sinfulwolf. Both are bad and deserve extreme consequences.

It is interesting that I like to indulge in rape-hentai fantasy, and yet in reality, I almost hate it more than murder. Now I know there's no connection, simply because I don't act based on fantasy. To do that would only question your sanity. My point though, is that something like rape seems to lack real consequence. So the reason I seem to hate it more, is because the rapists seem like they get it off easily compared to murderers.

On the chain of crimes, sexual abuse is right there above murder (murder being the lowest)... for me at least. Most murder cases, the criminal is kept alive and just sentenced to life or something. I would love to see the same for rapists.

Out of curiosity, I searched google and

You must be registered to see the links

.

The best answer's source is allegedly from "retired cop, 11 years as homicide/sex detective, M.Sci-LEA"

"Violent rapists are serial criminals. They will rape again. Most were some type of criminal, like burglar, prior to becoming rapists."

Just more of a reason to keep them in prison for life, or kill them. =D

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Rape is the greyest of almost all crimes, hence why judicially, it's the worst treated. Some of those serial criminals get off easier than most people think they should, while some of the dumbest arguments/misconversations will cause a child's life to be completely ruined for nearly nothing. That group session thing I was talking about? I feel sorry for some of these people who will likely not get off of a registration and other lifelong requirements til they're a senior citizen, and even then, it's not like their record is expunged. They have to work and appeal their whole life just to get to the same point any other released criminal is at.

 

[Cappy]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Well, because the "rape whistle" is treated so seriously, and blows up so much steam in media and other places, there are some women who abuse that power.

Especially in America if I recall, it's a popular trend to raise blackmail material out of false rape accusations. Because so much steam and energy gathers around the whole thing, there could be a severe lack of evidence and the innocent person will still be sent to prison for (x) amount of time.

I hate rape as much as anybody else, but I do think that investigations and evidence regarding allegations should be treated a lot more seriously.

And of course in South Africa, because rape is a part of the culture, we're on the other end of the spectrum, with even our president Jacob Zuma having enough valid evidence against him for a fair time in jail.

But apparently nobody gives a shit that the person who we're all supposed to trust to lead our country is a fugitive level thug who isn't even that good at sweet talking his way out of it. On the contrary, he fumbled his words in such a manner that made it look worse.

 

[Chibichibi]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Well, because the "rape whistle" is treated so seriously, and blows up so much steam in media and other places, there are some women who abuse that power.

Especially in America if I recall, it's a popular trend to raise blackmail material out of false rape accusations. Because so much steam and energy gathers around the whole thing, there could be a severe lack of evidence and the innocent person will still be sent to prison for (x) amount of time.

I hate rape as much as anybody else, but I do think that investigations and evidence regarding allegations should be treated a lot more seriously.

And of course in South Africa, because rape is a part of the culture, we're on the other end of the spectrum, with even our president Jacob Zuma having enough valid evidence against him for a fair time in jail.

But apparently nobody gives a shit that the person who we're all supposed to trust to lead our country is a fugitive level thug who isn't even that good at sweet talking his way out of it. On the contrary, he fumbled his words in such a manner that made it look worse.

There was something I heard, over there, of "correction" rape, where they rape lesbian in order to cure them... >.< There's not even a lot of legal action to go after these guys either...