VN/TEXT Patreon Unknown/Hiatus [SunsetRiders7] Something Unlimited
freeko
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Re: Injustice Unlimited
#Rekt
Shame though. I would have no real issue defeating them in court, but everyone believes my methods to be "non-sensical" among other things.
Then again you could simply rename them and change a few colors and then call them a parody character. Which of course would make things perfectly legal at that point as parodies are exempted from copyright law.
Then again according to some I know jack shit about the corrupted legal system in this country.
#Rekt
Shame though. I would have no real issue defeating them in court, but everyone believes my methods to be "non-sensical" among other things.
Then again you could simply rename them and change a few colors and then call them a parody character. Which of course would make things perfectly legal at that point as parodies are exempted from copyright law.
Then again according to some I know jack shit about the corrupted legal system in this country.
MegatronYES
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Re: Injustice Unlimited
Totally Relevant: Justice League is expiring off of Netflix this february.
Totally Relevant: Justice League is expiring off of Netflix this february.
YummyTiger
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Re: Injustice Unlimited
I've been looking up "derivative" works, and wonder if anyone here could explain how it works? I would think these would be a derivative. Plus, Patreon is not a sales mechanism, meaning nobody is buying the game, they are donating to the creator. I'd think if he produced original works as well as this, he could argue that the original works are the draw for his Patreon, while this is a side project? Still, it'd be hard to win a case against the legal might of WB. There is a reason you hear about the little guy winning every now and then, because it is rare as fuck.
I've been looking up "derivative" works, and wonder if anyone here could explain how it works? I would think these would be a derivative. Plus, Patreon is not a sales mechanism, meaning nobody is buying the game, they are donating to the creator. I'd think if he produced original works as well as this, he could argue that the original works are the draw for his Patreon, while this is a side project? Still, it'd be hard to win a case against the legal might of WB. There is a reason you hear about the little guy winning every now and then, because it is rare as fuck.
Re: Injustice Unlimited
Im really confused, Sunset was on here 2 days ago and everything was fine and I checked his patreon and there is no mention of him getting a notice to stop development. Still has thousands of dollars in potential pledges and usually when development stops they go through and dump the patreons so they dont get charged.
Edit: Just saw his last post was from October, it just looked like it was from a couple days ago.
Im really confused, Sunset was on here 2 days ago and everything was fine and I checked his patreon and there is no mention of him getting a notice to stop development. Still has thousands of dollars in potential pledges and usually when development stops they go through and dump the patreons so they dont get charged.
Edit: Just saw his last post was from October, it just looked like it was from a couple days ago.
Re: Injustice Unlimited
Yeah just checked again and he is still at over $4,000 in pledges so im inclined to believe that he is either ignoring the notice since copyright law allows parodies or he has not received any notices at all.
Yeah just checked again and he is still at over $4,000 in pledges so im inclined to believe that he is either ignoring the notice since copyright law allows parodies or he has not received any notices at all.
HentaiWriter
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Re: Injustice Unlimited
Porn, contrary to popular belief (in America at least, where Patreon is at) does not automatically fall under parody law, even if it's attempting to be (in the case of Injustice, for example).
Basically, like many other cases of legality in America, it's sort of a "hey, what you're doing is pretty much defamatory or illegal outright, but we're going to have one of two reactions regarding it;
1) your content is defamatory to our original product, we sue you, it stops (like what happened with a 50 shades of grey parody, ironically, a while ago;
2) your content is possibly defamatory to us, but we're going to look the other way because we like the extra exposure regardless and/or we'll sign a deal with you to get a portion of the profits, in secret (like listed in that above article)"
The problem here isn't about it selling or not; they aren't worried about the money, at all. The reason they're doing this is the legal defamation of their product; porn is still heavily, heavily stigmatized in America, and almost anytime you do a porn parody of something, it's going to fall under clause #1 that I detailed up above.
On top of that, the few times it falls under case #2, it's far more likely for a company to give the OK in secret or look the other way for something done in real life, as IRL porn is much less stigmatized (with porn actors getting mainstream acting jobs and so forth) than hentai is in America, with hentai still being something that generally conjures up images of tentacle rape and BDSM and other "crazy shit" in the mind of the average American.
And given that 50 Shades of Grey is considered "extremely kinky" by mainstream America, despite it being 1) horribly inaccurate depictions of BDSM and 2) extremely vanilla when taken in as a whole, you can only imagine how freaked out a company would be to affiliate itself with something hentai-based.
In another 10 years, I can see hentai becoming as destigmatized as regular porn is (which again is still stigmatized some, but not nearly as much), but where it's at now, it would be mindblowing for a SFW company to allow, even in secret, a NSFW parody of their work.
This is sort of an "old wives tale" that gets thrown around the media business a lot, and honestly, very, very few cases fall under it.
Porn, contrary to popular belief (in America at least, where Patreon is at) does not automatically fall under parody law, even if it's attempting to be (in the case of Injustice, for example).
You must be registered to see the links
Basically, like many other cases of legality in America, it's sort of a "hey, what you're doing is pretty much defamatory or illegal outright, but we're going to have one of two reactions regarding it;
1) your content is defamatory to our original product, we sue you, it stops (like what happened with a 50 shades of grey parody, ironically, a while ago;
You must be registered to see the links
)2) your content is possibly defamatory to us, but we're going to look the other way because we like the extra exposure regardless and/or we'll sign a deal with you to get a portion of the profits, in secret (like listed in that above article)"
See my above post; if WB wanted, they could sue the Injustice owners for loads of money for having "smeared the quality and presentation of their original IP" with hentai, and they'd win.
You could, but the fact still remains that they already put this content up, and hence the damage is done, which is why Patreon is going nuts trying to shut stuff like this down.
A derivative work is generally only done with approval of the original content creator (like say, if someone wanted to do a novel adaptation of what happened AFTER Harry Potter ended, but the writer wasn't Rowling, but the got APPROVAL from her to do so.)
The problem here isn't about it selling or not; they aren't worried about the money, at all. The reason they're doing this is the legal defamation of their product; porn is still heavily, heavily stigmatized in America, and almost anytime you do a porn parody of something, it's going to fall under clause #1 that I detailed up above.
On top of that, the few times it falls under case #2, it's far more likely for a company to give the OK in secret or look the other way for something done in real life, as IRL porn is much less stigmatized (with porn actors getting mainstream acting jobs and so forth) than hentai is in America, with hentai still being something that generally conjures up images of tentacle rape and BDSM and other "crazy shit" in the mind of the average American.
And given that 50 Shades of Grey is considered "extremely kinky" by mainstream America, despite it being 1) horribly inaccurate depictions of BDSM and 2) extremely vanilla when taken in as a whole, you can only imagine how freaked out a company would be to affiliate itself with something hentai-based.
In another 10 years, I can see hentai becoming as destigmatized as regular porn is (which again is still stigmatized some, but not nearly as much), but where it's at now, it would be mindblowing for a SFW company to allow, even in secret, a NSFW parody of their work.
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Re: Injustice Unlimited
I wont believe it until I see a post on here or on his Patreon specifically saying that he has to stop development. His Patreon still has over 600 backers so it's pretty safe to assume that he has not received a notice.
I wont believe it until I see a post on here or on his Patreon specifically saying that he has to stop development. His Patreon still has over 600 backers so it's pretty safe to assume that he has not received a notice.
cvonsuela85
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Re: Injustice Unlimited
The last post was on his patreon was about him receiving a DMCA notice, which was posted today, he has removed all links of the alpha from his patreon. They are trying to work out what they will do next, but from my understanding, they plan to switch over to original works or try to salvage the game Injustice Unlimited somehow. They said they'll give an update on their plans later today
Re: Injustice Unlimited
Thanks for the clarification, HentaiWriter , though i have to say this practice basically defeats the purpose of Fair Use, if that Agreement is basically there to give the small people any legal chance to fight for their freedom. And as it was mentioned before i would think that donations, private or public, aren't sales profits that would nullify the project outright.
If it were that easy to just pass-off Fair Use, there wouldn't be any fan-made stuff at all out there. All fan-made stuff could be described as "smearing the original" or whatever. I get the feeling they should at least get an initial legal counsel on the situation.
Thanks for the clarification, HentaiWriter , though i have to say this practice basically defeats the purpose of Fair Use, if that Agreement is basically there to give the small people any legal chance to fight for their freedom. And as it was mentioned before i would think that donations, private or public, aren't sales profits that would nullify the project outright.
If it were that easy to just pass-off Fair Use, there wouldn't be any fan-made stuff at all out there. All fan-made stuff could be described as "smearing the original" or whatever. I get the feeling they should at least get an initial legal counsel on the situation.
HentaiWriter
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Re: Injustice Unlimited
And yeah, Fair Use basically spiraled out of control in the last 10 or so years in terms of how people interpreted it (the public, not the legal system); it really is meant to be used only in a tiny, specific amount of cases. Otherwise, large companies would be abusing it astronomically to run each other into the ground financially and legally.
Copyright is EXTREMELY strict in America, and anytime you use anyone else's content in any way, unless it's explicitly listed that it's free or public use, or one of these few uses of Fair Use (this is actually pretty accurate) -
Profit is not something that is as big of an issue as the "image" of the IP being "tarnished" is.
And yeah, Fair Use basically spiraled out of control in the last 10 or so years in terms of how people interpreted it (the public, not the legal system); it really is meant to be used only in a tiny, specific amount of cases. Otherwise, large companies would be abusing it astronomically to run each other into the ground financially and legally.
It CAN be described as smearing the original; check outcome #2 from my previous post where SOME companies will look the other way, but yes, a great deal of fan art could be nailed as tarnishing the original IP. This goes as well for music, videos, writing, and any other form of media.
Copyright is EXTREMELY strict in America, and anytime you use anyone else's content in any way, unless it's explicitly listed that it's free or public use, or one of these few uses of Fair Use (this is actually pretty accurate) -
You must be registered to see the links
- you open yourself up to at least a tiny risk of the original owner of the IP shutting you down or DMCA'ing you.
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Re: Injustice Unlimited
How is it even a discussion whether this is legal or not? lol
It's so obviously up to the guys who own the copyright to decide what to do.
This isn't like drawn together were superman was parodied as a homosexual racist retard called captain hero, these are the actual characters and whathaveyou.
I just hope the originals that they come up with will be good. They probably will, but we'll see, almost nothing beats wonder woman.
How is it even a discussion whether this is legal or not? lol
It's so obviously up to the guys who own the copyright to decide what to do.
This isn't like drawn together were superman was parodied as a homosexual racist retard called captain hero, these are the actual characters and whathaveyou.
I just hope the originals that they come up with will be good. They probably will, but we'll see, almost nothing beats wonder woman.
freeko
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Re: Injustice Unlimited
I would say more than 75% of the motivation behind the DMCA is that the big monolithic company wants to bully around a small-fry as it were. I still think the legal action brought against this is lacking any standing in the first place, but again no one seems to see things the way I do and automatically assume that laws apply to them (which I would very successfully argue that they in fact do not).
First, there would need to be proof that any injury, loss or harm as a result of this project was even done in the first place. Good luck with that.
Then again, everyone thinks I am out of my mind. But the thing is, I already know how I would have beaten this if it had happened to me.
I would say more than 75% of the motivation behind the DMCA is that the big monolithic company wants to bully around a small-fry as it were. I still think the legal action brought against this is lacking any standing in the first place, but again no one seems to see things the way I do and automatically assume that laws apply to them (which I would very successfully argue that they in fact do not).
First, there would need to be proof that any injury, loss or harm as a result of this project was even done in the first place. Good luck with that.
Then again, everyone thinks I am out of my mind. But the thing is, I already know how I would have beaten this if it had happened to me.
Re: Injustice Unlimited
I am actually studying law myself, diferent country ofcourse, so freeko could you elaborate maybe that would give an idea to sunset in order to bypass or solve this issue and it could help in a future should this problem come up again
I am actually studying law myself, diferent country ofcourse, so freeko could you elaborate maybe that would give an idea to sunset in order to bypass or solve this issue and it could help in a future should this problem come up again
OP
SunsetRiders7
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Re: Injustice Unlimited
Hi it's SmokeShank (tried using my account but it won't let me post) so I'm using Sunsets. I want to say that yes we were informed of the DMCA notice via Patreon Trust team. Meaning that WB had sent the DMCA to Patreon. Patreon did let us know that removal of our page was an option (one we didn't entertain for a second I'm sure you can understand why). This means that Injustice has been removed completely from our page and WB seems satisfied with that. We have shelved the project for the time being as we need to get our affairs on Patreon in order. With that being said we are moving completely O.C. We had always wanted to move in this direction in fact the plan was to seamlessly transition to this beginning in May. Now this plan has to put in full working order in the next few days. We also had began the planning stages on a small game to coincide with the development of Injustice expansions (think Princess Trainer sized). So we are in position to move somewhat rapidly, we always knew this was a possibility but thought we might have something out in the Internets before it came down. More info to come as we iron out distribution and a development schedule for this project. I want to thank everyone here for the support (or non support lol) during Injustice.
Hi it's SmokeShank (tried using my account but it won't let me post) so I'm using Sunsets. I want to say that yes we were informed of the DMCA notice via Patreon Trust team. Meaning that WB had sent the DMCA to Patreon. Patreon did let us know that removal of our page was an option (one we didn't entertain for a second I'm sure you can understand why). This means that Injustice has been removed completely from our page and WB seems satisfied with that. We have shelved the project for the time being as we need to get our affairs on Patreon in order. With that being said we are moving completely O.C. We had always wanted to move in this direction in fact the plan was to seamlessly transition to this beginning in May. Now this plan has to put in full working order in the next few days. We also had began the planning stages on a small game to coincide with the development of Injustice expansions (think Princess Trainer sized). So we are in position to move somewhat rapidly, we always knew this was a possibility but thought we might have something out in the Internets before it came down. More info to come as we iron out distribution and a development schedule for this project. I want to thank everyone here for the support (or non support lol) during Injustice.
Re: Injustice Unlimited
That really sucks, I dont like how much of a crapshoot it is to make parodies. I mean Zone and Akabur are 2 major devs that rely heavily on copyrighted material and as far as I know no one has bothered them.
That really sucks, I dont like how much of a crapshoot it is to make parodies. I mean Zone and Akabur are 2 major devs that rely heavily on copyrighted material and as far as I know no one has bothered them.
HentaiWriter
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Re: Injustice Unlimited
In Zone's case, he's in that magical area similar to some other celebrities of their craft where he is respected by many of his peers in SFW industry stuff, so the exact same work done by a different person would likely have a higher possibility of getting nailed. I mean, he got HIRED at Lab Zero in large part due to his hentai work.
Also in Zone's case, this is because of three other factors; 1) he got in REALLY early (basically became the poster child of western hentai way back in the day), 2) did amazingly solid work far beyond what practically anyone else did, and 3) operated as professional as possible.
I'm not saying Sunset didn't do the first two things, but the first thing that Zone did worked wonders for getting him "immunity" as it were, and you can see this all over all forms of media where people who get in on the ground floor of something and do it solid and keep it consistent get ridiculous leeway in the content they can produce in regards to ignoring copyright outright.
In Akabur's case, he's in Russia AFAIK, and as his content is made in Russia, the company can threaten PATREON, but they can't threaten him, so that's all on what Patreon wants to do. (Additionally, Disney is generally not as strict on nailing people doing porn or fanart of their stuff as WB is, for whatever reason, but AFAIK he DID get nailed for his Harry Potter stuff and hence had to change the name, again AFAIK.)
In Zone's case, he's in that magical area similar to some other celebrities of their craft where he is respected by many of his peers in SFW industry stuff, so the exact same work done by a different person would likely have a higher possibility of getting nailed. I mean, he got HIRED at Lab Zero in large part due to his hentai work.
Also in Zone's case, this is because of three other factors; 1) he got in REALLY early (basically became the poster child of western hentai way back in the day), 2) did amazingly solid work far beyond what practically anyone else did, and 3) operated as professional as possible.
I'm not saying Sunset didn't do the first two things, but the first thing that Zone did worked wonders for getting him "immunity" as it were, and you can see this all over all forms of media where people who get in on the ground floor of something and do it solid and keep it consistent get ridiculous leeway in the content they can produce in regards to ignoring copyright outright.
OP
SunsetRiders7
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Re: Injustice Unlimited
SmokeShank here again
Although we both pointed the "why not him" finger around, we want to keep this as isolated as possible. I would hate to be the guy who started pointing all the damn lawyers at Patreon and other artists/creators. In the end we have no choice but to move forward and roll with the punches. It sucks but in the end we will become better for it. Also guys we were avg like 7-8 new patrons/day, since yesterday we have lost 40+ patrons it sucks hard lol.
SmokeShank here again
Although we both pointed the "why not him" finger around, we want to keep this as isolated as possible. I would hate to be the guy who started pointing all the damn lawyers at Patreon and other artists/creators. In the end we have no choice but to move forward and roll with the punches. It sucks but in the end we will become better for it. Also guys we were avg like 7-8 new patrons/day, since yesterday we have lost 40+ patrons it sucks hard lol.