What's new
By:
Filters

Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion


Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Is there still an actual argument here?

Bomb knows how they want to play the paladin. Pervy is okay with it. Other players are okay with it. So we go forward, right?

And if the books say it's not that way and we all are still cool with it, then F**k the books.
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

BlueSlime said:
F**k the books.
Click to expand...

I actually couldn't rule 34 find that one.

So heres 'In Soviet russia, book fucks you!'
You must be registered to see the links
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

I don't think anyone's arguing. I just like complaining.

Pathfinder is notorious for nerfing classes that don't need to be nerfed. The -3 to spellcasting level is what comes to mind when I think of Ranger and the Paladin, among other things.

Oh well. If there's ever a Pathfinder 2e, i'm sure they'll do a better job at balancing things.
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Paladin is incredibly powerful in pathfinder. Compared to 3.5 they made them work then went even further and made lay on hands and smite a lot stronger. I recall my paladin solokilling a thing two crs above her on her own, the DM throwing a 'Alright, heres the areas boss, has super grapple bonus' To which I replied, well yes, but I have a paladin of freedom, your thing can have a limitless grapple bonus, but if its only stick is to grapple and then squish me, this isn't working out for it. Btw, lay on hands on myself again this turn and attack it, lets see if I get another crit.. Long story short Dark Young vs Paladin of Freedom, don't bet on the Dark Young.

Or, to make it clearer what I'm getting at, How about we make it so your smite only works for a single round and Lay on hands on self is a standard action and I'll give you 4 more skillpoints/lvl at your leisure.
 
Last edited:
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Comparing the Paladin to its complete shit 3.5e version doesn't all of a sudden make it a powerful class. Is a Paladin good at killing BBEG's? Certainly, arguably the best.

But what happens when the Paladin runs out of they're extremely limited smite? Or they fight a group of enemies instead of one bad guy. Or gods forbid, they fight something that's not actually evil! wew, lad, Paladin's are gonna have a rough time. Then they're a subpar fighter with good saves.

Just because a character is good at combat, doesn't mean they should be useless outside of it. Casters are god at both. Why can't martials?
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

What. Man, the fighters worse than everyone.

A paladin without smite is STILL better or on par with the fighter. This is something I've tested a lot.

And good saves accounts for a lot of things. Fighters are enchantment bait.

You have divine bond which stacks with enchantments to get super strong weapons. Or a special mount to outmaneuver the enemy cus mounted combat is super powerful, just has awkward limits to maneuver around. You've lay on hands as a swift to outlast the fighter without harming action economy. You have several immunities that provide buffs to allies. You;ve many useful spells, and a feat to crib a few spell off the cleric or bard to boot.

You suck as much at skills as the fighter but everything else is the same or better. Sure the fighter get's more feats but funnily enough, most combat feats are awful, and the fighter has to burn half of them to be better than his npc Warrior counterpart anyways.

Mind you, since Advanced Weapon/Armor training came out the fighter is a bit better than he was but he still is nowhere near the Paladin even against neutral enemies.
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

DaBomb said:
Comparing the Paladin to its complete shit 3.5e version doesn't all of a sudden make it a powerful class. Is a Paladin good at killing BBEG's? Certainly, arguably the best.

But what happens when the Paladin runs out of they're extremely limited smite? Or they fight a group of enemies instead of one bad guy. Or gods forbid, they fight something that's not actually evil! wew, lad, Paladin's are gonna have a rough time. Then they're a subpar fighter with good saves.

Just because a character is good at combat, doesn't mean they should be useless outside of it. Casters are god at both. Why can't martials?
Click to expand...

Seeing how you saw me argue with Zilrax before you should smell it on the wind when I tell you.. he's right. Not to say you can't do some wild stuff with a lot of feats in the right build, but ultimately fighter is just that, a dip for levels when Barbarian offers that much more smacking power, and paladin more tanking power. A paladin without smite is a fighter that can tank better usually.

That and.. yeah, that example I gave about the Dark young? I'd have been in serious trouble without a charisma mod and subsequent saving throw bonus that can basically visualized by a large middle finger to all spells allowing a saving throw.

Plus theres some variants that completely replace smite, look at this variant for example.
You must be registered to see the links


Either way! Mindflayer, dun forget yous up with Lena/Vel in the main rp.
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Ah, divine bond. I forgot about that. I have yet to play a Paladin that's not a Sacred Servent, so I tend to forget that part.

And I think you're heavily underestimating combat feats. They're are plenty of chains that get rude towards the end, which the Paladin can not hope to afford.
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

The fighter can be alright for dips but even then I'd usually rather Ranger since you get more out of it unless you're going for only one level dips.

That said I do use a fair bit of fighter for my throwing rocks that blow through castle doors build. Though I've been toying about replacing the fighter for Warpriest levels, I'm not sure which I'd prefer. Warpriest is probably better versatility wise cus spells but I think they'd do less damage even with the spells. Need to math it more.

But yeah. While I think 2+int really ought to be for full casters at minimum, combatwise the paladin is the best defensive martial in core games. While the Monk can pull higher AC, they don't have nearly as good saves, status removal and so forth and the paladins AC is very high anyways most the time. So it all comes into an all-rounder package that deals about as much damage as a fighter most the time, way more in oh god moments, and provide tons of resources instead of just being a drain on them via spells/crafting.

There are some, sure. But they tend to be hyper specialized and take way too many feats to be worth it, to do things the paladin can probably just manage without.
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

DaBomb said:
Ah, divine bond. I forgot about that. I have yet to play a Paladin that's not a Sacred Servent, so I tend to forget that part.

And I think you're heavily underestimating combat feats. They're are plenty of chains that get rude towards the end, which the Paladin can not hope to afford.
Click to expand...

No I'm not. You go Fighter for a lvl 2 feat dip and I absolutely guarantee you that 2 fighter/18 paladin has that chain you want and still better performance.

Infact, you may well find some paladin 20 capstones not worth dropping compared to high end feat chains, compare the stonelords stone body I send you with ANY feat on the table see how it fares.

While the Monk can pull higher AC, they don't have nearly as good saves, status removal and so forth and the paladins AC is very high anyways most the time.
Click to expand...

I posted the stonelord for a reason, because it can serve as multi-example tool for this case too. unless you get monster classes with dex/wis boni you'll struggle to beat a Stonelord who can stack towershield and fullplate on top of a natural boost similiar to monkish progression, infact a tad better, that and they get Stalwart Defense and class boon crit resistance that goes.. pretty insane.
If I want an immovable tank that has a bonus of 'hey I can poke holes into rock if I want to' for rp flair, Stonelord is the way.
 
Last edited:
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Hm... To summon fiendish dire wolf that Lior has to service, or to summon pack of fiendish normal wolves... Man wish I had summon monster 6, make Lior host a shadow demon til she orgasms... Hmmm...

If I was a follower of Groetus I could summon an Akata, get our parasite on... Hmmm... Stupid lack of Nocticula article in the nocticula book... Love to have some alternate spells... Baphomet got some, stupid mino jerk...
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Zilrax said:
Hm... To summon fiendish dire wolf that Lior has to service, or to summon pack of fiendish normal wolves... Man wish I had summon monster 6, make Lior host a shadow demon til she orgasms... Hmmm...

If I was a follower of Groetus I could summon an Akata, get our parasite on... Hmmm... Stupid lack of Nocticula article in the nocticula book... Love to have some alternate spells... Baphomet got some, stupid mino jerk...
Click to expand...

Kinky. I assumed you wanted lvl 9 for Polymorphing mayhem.
That said, knowing Corruptive, I'll allow an Akata just because It'd be amusing to see them forfeit. Lets say you owe nocti one.
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Nah, for my Summon Demons ability. It'd let me summon 1 succubus, a few babaus or several Pyro demons. I'd need 12 for Summon Monster 6 to call up a Shadow Demon.

Well, 11 since by then I'd have the feat to get my full castery stuff back. Though I might do count all levels for my familiar to keep Vel strong...

Anyways Akata it is. Summoning Space Aliens is a go!

You must be registered to see the links
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

No I'm not. You go Fighter for a lvl 2 feat dip and I absolutely guarantee you that 2 fighter/18 paladin has that chain you want and still better performance.

Infact, you may well find some paladin 20 capstones not worth dropping compared to high end feat chains, compare the stonelords stone body I send you with ANY feat on the table see how it fares.
Click to expand...

That statement wasn't directed toward you, I was talking to Zilrax on that one.

And a fighter is a terrible class to dip in for... just about anyone. Feats is a terrible reason to dip a class for. But if you want feats, Brawler is tn times better for that. And to be honest, the vanilla capstone for Paladin is pretty terrible. It's why most people recommend dipping into another class instead of going for twenty. Just like the 5e rogue.
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

DaBomb said:
Feats is a terrible reason to dip a class for.
Click to expand...

Or indeed, play an entire class for. /discussion
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Most people also never reach 20 anyways. I've done it like twice before campaigns have ended and it's been many many years since I started playing.

Incidently you want me to write Akata sex or do you wanna Pervy? Figure you'd know better how you want akata to work in this game.
 
Last edited:
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Zilrax said:
Most people also never reach 20 anyways. I've done it like twice before campaigns have ended and it's been many many years since I started playing.
Click to expand...

Oh, that too, even with you starting out lvl 7 I don't see you going above 13 tops until the story is told, not to say we can't start another story with the same gals if you're still about and wanting.

My highest level character went to lvl 38, and the last 3 levels of those are estimated because you can't quite compare levels and Divine Ranks, but to be fair I had had her for 5-6 years until that point. The likelyhood of getting a good and dedicated enough DM and a group of interested, dedicated players(or just one player) that stick together for so long online is just regrettably low.

Incidently you want me to write Akata sex or do you wanna Pervy? Figure you'd know better how you want akata to work in this game.
Click to expand...

Go nuts, remember this subforums title, Ventus approves of awakened lustful voidzombies(though the circles magic is still in effect) but she doesn't look or act like the normal deathknight either.
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

I'll edit it in then once I decide what Akata sex even looks like :p I mean normally they reproduce via those parasites and via nom bites but not exactly sexy... Hmmm...

Tentacle injection of parasites perhaps.
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Pervy said:
The likelyhood of getting a good and dedicated enough DM and a group of interested, dedicated players(or just one player) that stick together for so long online is just regrettably low.
Click to expand...

Just going to jump in here and say that it isn't any more likely to happen IRL. I've been playing with the same group of people since high-school and we've never finished a campaign. Plenty of modules though...
 
Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

I've finished lot's of campaigns IRL, but most end at 15-17 at best.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top