The Ranting/Debate Thread

[Kusanagi]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

After reading through Copper's rant, all I can hear in my head is Yahtzee's rant about fans being ungrateful shits. Bioware is in 'meh' standing with me right now, but I hope they go ahead with the character being gay, and don't change him to bi just to appease the fans.

 

[Copper]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

@OAMP - The statement was being made on the tails of my ranting to CB about Dorian, so that's part of where it came from. The other part of it comes from the often lack of representation of the LGBT community in things, particularly video games. But, it wasn't said to be malicious, just...observation.

I can agree. I think the ME3 thing has taught us a thing or two (and I still haven't played it yet, but I was fully aware of the whole flurry around it. Hard not to be.) about fans and expectations. I guess I, myself, have different expectations when it comes to games. Either that, or I'm just more chill when it comes to the romances. Not to say I won't gripe now and again, but I can (hopefully) find better things to gripe about.

@Kusa - Yeah, I can hear him saying that too. Rewatching some of the old reviews, so it's even more clear in my head.

 

[Rule 34]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Hm, this sounds like something Jim Sterling would make a video about. I wonder if he's been made aware of that yet.

EDIT: Apparently not, according to his twitter account.

 

[Copper]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Dunnae follow much of anything on Twitter, so I'll take your word for it. He's definitely an interesting one to listen to now and again, I'll give you that.

 

[XSI]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

I am not a fan of bioware or their recent games by any definition, but I do hope they just stick to their plan and keep the character as is instead of just changing stuff because people disagreed.

Let the devs make the game, if you don't like it you don't have to buy it. They have the vision for what they want the game to be, and they will make it according to said vision. If someone calls themselves a fan of a company, then they should at least be able to assume that the company will do it well enough to be worth their money. That's why they're fans of the company after all

 

[OAMP]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

I know Copper. I wasn't trying to argue, merely to expand.

 

[Copper]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

XSI - Definitely agree with you on that one.

OAMP - No worries. Just clarifying a few of my statements myself. Didn't think you were being argumentative.

 

[Rule 34]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

If someone calls themselves a fan of a company, then they should at least be able to assume that the company will do it well enough to be worth their money. That's why they're fans of the company after all

If they're fans of that company, they would be aware that there were 2 love interests in Mass Effect 3 that were homosexual. Nobody caused TOO much of a ruckus back then. To do it now seems... insulting to my sensibilities somehow. "How DARE this character be gay! I demand he jumps my ladyparts RIGHT THIS INSTANT!" I don't know, this just stinks of people trying to "cure" homosexuals, even if it's just an imaginary one.

 

[OAMP]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Eh, maybe DA and ME have different fanbases, that attract different demographics. Keep in mind, I usually the last person to rag on teens, but the "tumblr demographic" seems a lot more likely to play DA than ME to me, if you know what I mean.

 

[Hopeyouguess62]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

I think, for the sake of equality, that we should be able to witness romantic (and by that, I mean SEXUAL) relationships between EVERY CHARACTER in Dragon Age. I want to see Alistair hook up with Flemeth (while she's in dragon form). I want to see Morrigan sandwiched between Zevran and Oghren with two flagons of beer balanced on her back. I want to see a Hurlock giving a futanari Wynne a rusty trombone. I want to see two Broodmothers sixty-nining. I want to see Sten beating off while Sandal urinates on him and screams, "Enchantment? Enchantment!"

I hold Bioware responsible for denying me these things, to which I feel completely entitled.

 

[lurker]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

And this is why mods will forever be a thing for PC games.

 

[Copper]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

If they're fans of that company, they would be aware that there were 2 love interests in Mass Effect 3 that were homosexual. Nobody caused TOO much of a ruckus back then. To do it now seems... insulting to my sensibilities somehow. "How DARE this character be gay! I demand he jumps my ladyparts RIGHT THIS INSTANT!" I don't know, this just stinks of people trying to "cure" homosexuals, even if it's just an imaginary one.

Finally muddled my way through to a response to Rule that didn't smack of race or specism (speciesism?). Maybe the whole DA2 thing with everybody being 'bisexual' spoiled people. ME never really did that. The majority of the 'bisexual' options in ME are women. Kaidan doesn't "switch teams" until 3, starting out as the LI for FemShep. I can only speculate. I can also go really shallow and say that they only care they can't hump Dorian because they think he's hot whereas they didn't care about Cortez. I'm just saddened that people, who are making claims to being gamers, are falling back on the "But I don't want to play a guy! Wah wah wah!" argument when I'm sitting here, looking at character lists which include both genders and a genderfluid. Maybe I have more imagination them. Maybe I grew up playing male characters in games because that was the only option *gets off soapbox before that rant starts* Maybe Rule's right and it is a "cure the gay" thing. I for one, again, am glad that they did it and I look forward to multiple playthroughs with many options.

I think, for the sake of equality, that we should be able to witness romantic (and by that, I mean SEXUAL) relationships between EVERY CHARACTER in Dragon Age. I want to see Alistair hook up with Flemeth (while she's in dragon form). I want to see Morrigan sandwiched between Zevran and Oghren with two flagons of beer balanced on her back. I want to see a Hurlock giving a futanari Wynne a rusty trombone. I want to see two Broodmothers sixty-nining. I want to see Sten beating off while Sandal urinates on him and screams, "Enchantment? Enchantment!"

I hold Bioware responsible for denying me these things, to which I feel completely entitled.

And this is why mods will forever be a thing for PC games.

Or fanfiction.

 

[OAMP]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Cortez might not have been hot, but his romance chain was pretty touching and full of many feels though. It's a shame that I already had an alternative plan for my male character. As usual though, I messed up said plan and got no romance :\

 

[Copper]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

See, that's why I like Bioware's writing. It's the story (in this case, the romance) that pulls you in. It's like Zev. Sure, it's easy to get into the sack with him, but when you *talk* to him, it gets rather deep. And first playthrough, I was all set to romance Zev and then I started talking to the sweet Chantry boy. Bioware does characters. Admittedly, some you want to strangle, but it invokes an emotional response, so I'll call that a win.

 

[Unknown Squid]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Wasn't sure where to put this but wanted to share it. Simply food for thought, and this thread felt like the right environment, a little more than funny/awesome videos or news.

Automation and thinking about the future.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[XSI]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Spoiler

Post in question here
http://www.ulmf.org/bbs/showthread.php?p=595552#post595552

Now that is interesting. You say you're not following it, and yet at the same time you call it all fabrications. You then go on to insult and generalize a whole group of people based on where they post and spend their time on the internet.

4chan has raised 5000 dollar for actual women in video games in just one day. So please, tell me more about how 4chan neckbeards are just shitty MRAs fabricating shit about an 'overblown' situation that involves corruption, censorship, and people blocking legitimate charities from game-related news so that they can make off with the money intended to help people.
Please do make an ass out of yourself again right here. The good people of 4chan are doing more to help women than all these figureheads of 'feminism' in gaming have ever done.

Attitudes like what I've seen of yours are only making the situation worse for everyone involved. Loads of text from someone else's rant on the matter in here which explains the situation and why its important

You must be registered to see the links

Yes, it's big. Just read it. It goes into the details of why it's important

And since I'm posting, I'll assume you're also this person

Spoiler

With post here
http://www.ulmf.org/bbs/showthread.php?p=550506#post550506

Lets keep this going, the market indeed says so. If you don't like it, buy more games and be the market you want them to see. That's how it worked for Bioware who now have a lot of attention to their female characters and their female versions of the main characters just plain work. It worked there, and it can work anywhere else as well.
The entire genre of "Hidden object"-style games are very popular among women(And not bad games either) and are seeing mostly female protagonists. That's because they are the target audience for those games, and that's what the audience wants to see. This is really just the most basic thing for selling something. There is a demand for these things, so the companies deliver the supply and make a profit. If you want more supply for these things, make it known to the companies there is a demand for it without insulting them. Attempting to force the market to supply without any demand will only result in nobody buying those games, bad sales figures, and then companies will flat out refuse to make more of them because its bad for business.
Since it seems you don't have a clue about games or the shit around it, I recommend Extra Credits. They have a few episodes on diversity and similar issues in games and how to deal with it.

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Cappy]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

I get that women don't get represented accurately and get objectified in video games, and I think it would be awesome if that was alleviated somewhat, but it never ceases to amaze me that the people who argue so vehemently for equal coverage in games and/or comic books usually have little to nothing to say about television and film. Why does that surprise me, you ask? Because TV has been objectifying women for far longer and, I believe, to a far greater degree of damage. Women weren't always seen as attractive the skinnier they were, in fact, being slightly chubby wasn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if you liked curvier figures, but men have almost universally fallen prey to the concept of Hollywood beautiful celebrities, whom a woman must partially emulate if she wants to be desirable to the average joe.

Now games come along, and with removal of actual actors and physical bodies, they can exaggerate the female figure as much as they want to sexualize them to the extreme. That might be seen as even worse, but in this case, at least it's clear to see that the figures are not realistic depictions of women, unlike TV which has brought female standards of beauty to a ludicrous point. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you want to kill unfair and typical misogynistic hyperbole, you should probably try aiming for the heart of the matter rather than going into video gaming culture and swinging wildly at hydra-heads with your pen-sword of futility, because as long as the target audience love the idea of voluptuous ass and boob and the presence there-of, it will most likely be present as a feature if there's a remote chance it could help sales, which it clearly can.

It would probably be better if there was some sort of esrb rating or indicator of unrealistic portrayal of any given gender. Whether it's a woman character being put into the "role" of being a woman in the story, being only a tangential romantic interest for the protagonist while clearly having the bare minimum for character development. Or (I guess) the only male equivalent I can really think of right at this second being the highly unlikely Edward Cullen, who's character development is so atypical of an actual relatable human being, it's laughable that he misses being one.

 

[XSI]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Spoiler

For post: http://www.ulmf.org/bbs/showthread.php?p=597987#post597987

Whoever you are, kindly stop your bullshit. You don't even bother to read the issue and just spout racist and sexist crap. It isn't about white men being oppressed. You assume things of me which I never mentioned anything about and never replied to it to give an alternate viewpoint. You know you have nothing to stand on or you would have said that publicly instead of just over a rep comment.
As it is, you only have insults and bigotry behind you.

This is the debate thread as well as one for rants, but I'm not writing this as a rant. I'm writing this as a challenge. Come on then, explain your viewpoint of things. If you can't even do that, then please educate yourself on the actual issue before spouting your racist and sexist crap at me.

And for reference

Spoiler

Try to stay as high up as possible

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

I must have missed where the rep comment directly refers to your post in the least. What in the fuck is he or she talking about?

 

[OAMP]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Perhaps they took offense at the "free game" part of the comment. Still, while it's alright to be offended at that, you didn't even take a stance on it, it was more like "hey, here's a thing, you can look at it if you want". Neg repping you for that is like murdering a newspaper boy because you don't like the headline.