The Ranting/Debate Thread

[Hopeyouguess62]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Besides, why is two men holding hands more difficult to explain to a child then advertisements and banners for strip clubs I've seen on sidewalks in Toronto.

I don't see a lot of strip club advertisements over here in California. Any, actually. But as far as the display, two men holding hands isn't hard to explain at all.

It's the more garish groups, the ones that have to dress like the Village People and wave around giant dildos in the street. And before you call me a liar, I've seen that happen, though not at the Boston St. Patrick's Day Parade, but at the Gay Pride Parade in Queens. Some of the displays were pornographic in nature. Granted, that was New York City, and New York City is... special.

It would be foolish to assume that one can shelter a child from sexuality in today's world, but I think that, up to a certain age, it's okay for parents to try to minimize it. I'm not talking about hiding the truth from teens, here. I'm talking about not having to explain sex to your toddler. Not yet.

 

[Tassadar]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

I kind of doubt anything particularly garish would have been on display in the St Patty's parade given that they were essentially forced out for trying to fly their own banner. Also, you do realize that there's a fairly significant difference between sex and love, right? I mean, they certainly can be related, but most people love their parents and siblings and whatnot without having sex with them. Or thinking about having sex with them, even. Usually. I think

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pretty well explains what would be necessary to make a kid understand it, if they even bothered to ask, and that kids are usually "protected" from an understanding of homosexuality until a later age is the root of a good quantity of homophobia since the sudden exposure to something different from what they're used to is a great way to create a knee-jerk anger response.

That all said, given the requirements of the parade having no pro or con message of any kind, I think this is getting blown a bit out of proportion. This isn't really a case of discrimination, it's a group trying to make an event about them that... Isn't.

 

[Hopeyouguess62]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Also, you do realize that there's a fairly significant difference between sex and love, right?

Spoiler

Yes. Yes, I do realize that.

I kind of doubt anything particularly garish would have been on display in the St Patty's parade given that they were essentially forced out for trying to fly their own banner.

If you say so, but even if they put on a relatively clean display, there's no guarantee that the inebriated conservatives will be as tame. Controversial parade displays have a way of bringing out the worst in people, especially when alcohol is involved.

That all said, given the requirements of the parade having no pro or con message of any kind, I think this is getting blown a bit out of proportion. This isn't really a case of discrimination, it's a group trying to make an event about them that... Isn't.

Yes. Agreed. I probably should not have mentioned the parenting thing in the first place, because not a parent and therefore not my problem. My main point was, and is, that it's the wrong time and place.

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

I actually don't like pride parades. I wasn't even talking about the parades really. I was replying to explaining adult concepts, as that is a parent's job, instead of letting their kids figure everything out in school (it does start rather early). Also, I was responding to the 'little white lies' bit about holding hands. That's what irked me.

Don't give a shit about the parade myself. Always felt it was counter productive personally, making the LGBT community seem a separate entity from the rest of humanity, whereas we should all be treated the same. Hence why I ignored the rest of your post.

 

[Hopeyouguess62]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Fair enough. Happily, I don't have any little versions of me running around (that I know of *knocks on wood*) so... yeah. I don't need to explain anything to kids.

Though, as you know, a position with ANY level of authority in the military can easily be compared to babysitting. So there's that.

 

[Unknown Squid]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

So I was checking up on news this evening, and...

etc

Nah, I can agree with you here just fine. As stated, it's suposed to be a neutral parade/event and not a platform for promoting causes or activism. Like you said, they could have taken part perfectly well with a more understated identification, which would be far more helpful in the cause of normalising their position, without needing to make a show at all. It's perhaps a wasted opportunity to get out there and have the message be, "See, we're normal just like you, so lets just get along and have a good time, and not even worry about it."

On the side, thinking about other social groups that have long fought for equality, same as all the others, there is going to have to be a time where easing off on the activism will be required. Not saying that we're anywhere near that yet, at least not in many countries. But a big part of achieving that equality for any group, is knowing how to smoothly transition from an activist culture, into an integrated and accepted one. Otherwise you get the effect that Sin mentioned, of continuing to highlight yourself as a separate entity.

 

[SmokinAce27]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Honestly though, what isn't used as a platform for LGBT rights these days. Seems to be the hottest topic in the world at the moment (Putin invading Ukraine aside.)

I'm all for giving them the same rights (they are still human after all), but I do admit it's getting a bit tiring seeing the activism everywhere, even at events such as the St. Paddy's Day parade where it's not even about human rights or equality at all (unless the message is we're all Irish on St. Paddy's day, so lets get drunk!)

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Almost as annoying as any uproar by farty old white guys who actually hold power still blithering on about how gays ruin the world just by existing, I'd assume.

 

[SmokinAce27]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Almost as annoying as any uproar by farty old white guys who actually hold power still blithering on about how gays ruin the world just by existing, I'd assume.

This is also true. Seems you can't turn anywhere without seeing the good, the bad, or the ugly opinions on the matter.

 

[Hopeyouguess62]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Speaking of ugly issues, here's a fresh controversy:

Spoiler

This

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was banned from bringing his "My Little Pony" to school because it created a disturbance in class (a decision that they quickly reversed after public uproar).

Now, due to my own childhood, I personally feel that middle school bullies are bastards in general who should have their balls cut off as a lesson to them and a benefit to the human gene pool. (I also would never have brought a piece of "My Little Pony" paraphernalia to school in the first place, because there were bullies at school, and even LESS was done about bullies when I was a kid.)

On the other hand, it's quite difficult to control teens and pre-teens to the point where bullying is prevented altogether. The school was trying to protect the kid and the learning environment with this preventative measure, but has not taken any public action against the bullies whatsoever (which I find unacceptable).

My opinion is that the school isn't taking adequate measures. Thoughts? Any comments from our own resident Bronies?

 

[XSI]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

While it is pretty stupid to take an MLP backpack to school(Everyone does stupid stuff sometimes, especially as kid) when you know there's going to be bullies(There always are), the school isn't really helping either. Yes, the kid made a mistake by bringing that backpack and he probably shouldn't do that if he values his social standing, but they're not actually doing anything that would result in positive change. It sounds like punishment because something happened and they had to find someone to punish

That's still the bullies being bullies though. You can't really punish them for laughing at a kid wearing a backpack that doesn't fit their social views, because, well, that's just what bullies do. But you can punish them for doing it during class and disturbing stuff.

So basically my view is just that the kid made a mistake and will probably learn from it, and that the school is run by dumbasses who don't seem to understand what they're doing. It seems to be action just so they can say "Look, we did something. We're not useless!"

 

[lurker]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

From a person who got expelled from junior high for pointing out that shit like Columbine was caused by aggressive bullying and high school for finally snapping at bullies...

Yeah, I think my view of 'bullies who work the system are scumbag douchelords who really get away with way too much' are spoken enough. At least in cyberspace there is the option to ignore and tools to avoid it, but it's sad that so few people use those tools also...

Bullying is no joke, and I really don't got a idea how to fix this.

 

[Hopeyouguess62]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

... 'bullies who work the system are scumbag douchelords who really get away with way too much' ...

If I could posrep this, I would, but apparently I liked something else you posted recently.

I still like my idea of bully castration for repeat offenders, though.

 

[lurker]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

If I could posrep this, I would, but apparently I liked something else you posted recently.

I still like my idea of bully castration for repeat offenders, though.

Alas, if we fix'd everyone who would show signs of stupidity, humanity would be dead in 50+ years. Because even the brightest do stupid stuff at least once in life.

The only real comforting thing is eventually these guys find situations that they can't just bully out of, or if they turn to felons they'll get caught because in all honesty, most bullies aren't too subtle...

Or they'll grow out of it, but that is sadly not very comforting or common in the long scheme of things.

 

[SmokinAce27]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Well I certainly feel for the kid, but I have to agree with XSI on this one. He made a mistake and will hopefully learn from it. The sad part is though, this mistake will likely haunt him for the rest of his school years.

And on the subject of how to handle bullying......hell I got nothing. Seems like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation to me. School does something, parents of said bullies raise hell with some shit about trampling on their child's right to free speech and expression or some such crap. School does nothing, they get bashed for not trying to protect the children.

I do not envy school officials on this one. Child Protection laws prevent us adults from really doing anything to those bullies, which sadly leaves most kids having to fight for themselves

 

[Gaara29]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Well, I do agree that punishing the victim is a shitty idea. Unfortunately, I'm one of those who rather dislikes MLP being shoved into everything, and I'm not a brony in any sense. I don't even care too much for MLP, but I don't hate it either outside of instances where it's being shoved into something(seriously, Rainbow Dash doesn't belong in the Holocaust), so I doubt I could offer a worthwhile opinion.

I'm just gonna say what I think on this matter frankly:

As popular as MLP is, a little boy bringing the stuff in that picture to school is an elephant in the livingroom even if he kept it to himself and didn't force it on people. Hell, when I was a kid I brought those catalogs that show new sets of Yugioh cards to school and video game guides and stuff like that to check out and read, and people(largely the teachers/staff)thought THAT was weird and something that shouldn't belong in a learning environment.

I am willing to bet he would be less likely to be bullied if it was, say, a spiderman or pikachu backpack. I don't like saying this, but I don't think this is entirely the bullies' fault. I know it's a total dick move to make claims like someone was asking for it, but on some level him wearing that thing obviously would attract more attention and display an obvious target to make fun of.

I feel bad for him, but I personally think that you don't bring that stuff to school. Hell, I don't even think what I brought to school was appropriate, looking back on it, or rather the fact that I read them in the middle of class even. There's just certain things you shouldn't bring to a learning environment with a mix of adolescents, many of whom are immature/retarded acting kids, and aging faculty, many of whom are sometimes uptight, stuck up, and straight laced as hell.

It's like an unwritten rule book that keeps getting expanded upon.

 

[Hopeyouguess62]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

DISCLAIMER: I'm having a little fun here, please don't take this seriously. It's the fucking Internet, people.

Actually there IS a victim here I hadn't thought about, someone who is conspicuously missing from the picture:

Spoiler

Think about it. You're a man who works hard to support a wife you no longer find attractive and take care of a son whose choice in cartoons you question. You put in long hours working with your buddies at the plant/factory/lumberyard/coal mine/[insert manly blue-collar job]. There are some nights where you get home so tired, it's all you can do to pound a beer, check out the sports highlights, shower, and take your world-weary ass to bed.

And then you get to work one day, and your work-buddies are gathered around a newspaper. And one of them sees you and says, "Oh shit!" And then another of them shows you the front page of the local news: your son, fruit of your loins, flesh of your flesh, blood of your blood, your own SON. Your wife and your son are in a picture, vociferously complaining because the school won't let your son wear a "My Little Pony" backpack to class.

Now I just made all of this up, but my point is that this COULD be a true story. And this poor, beleaguered Joe is going to have to find a job in a non-English-speaking country, because otherwise all of his buddies are going to call him "Brony," and put pony dolls in his work locker, and tell new guys about the "Pony Guy;" until long after he hangs himself in a tool shed, bringing an end to the wreckage that his son has left of his life and manhood.

Maybe we're being made to feel sorry for the wrong people.

 

[Gaara29]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

DISCLAIMER: I'm having a little fun here, please don't take this seriously. It's the fucking Internet, people.

Actually there IS a victim here I hadn't thought about, someone who is conspicuously missing from the picture:

Spoiler

Think about it. You're a man who works hard to support a wife you no longer find attractive and take care of a son whose choice in cartoons you question. You put in long hours working with your buddies at the plant/factory/lumberyard/coal mine/[insert manly blue-collar job]. There are some nights where you get home so tired, it's all you can do to pound a beer, check out the sports highlights, shower, and take your world-weary ass to bed.

And then you get to work one day, and your work-buddies are gathered around a newspaper. And one of them sees you and says, "Oh shit!" And then another of them shows you the front page of the local news: your son, fruit of your loins, flesh of your flesh, blood of your blood, your own SON. Your wife and your son are in a picture, vociferously complaining because the school won't let your son wear a "My Little Pony" backpack to class.

Now I just made all of this up, but my point is that this COULD be a true story. And this poor, beleaguered Joe is going to have to find a job in a non-English-speaking country, because otherwise all of his buddies are going to call him "Brony," and put pony dolls in his work locker, and tell new guys about the "Pony Guy;" until long after he hangs himself in a tool shed, bringing an end to the wreckage that his son has left of his life and manhood.

Maybe we're being made to feel sorry for the wrong people.

Aside from that exaggerated paragraph about the workers making fun of the dad, that actually makes some sense...I mean, if that was this very scenario, the dad must be wondering what the hell's he even doing with his life.

That aside, that was like a mix of really sad and really funny all in one. Good job.

 

[Nunu]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

That being said hope, virtually the same thing could happen for the hypothetical mother.

 

[Hopeyouguess62]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Here's another fun controversy:

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So there's a memorial in Prague with the inscription: "In eternal memory and honor of the fallen soldiers, internationalists, and peacemakers." It's actually dedicated to Soviet soldiers who essentially acted as an occupation force in Czechoslovakia between 1968 and 1991.

The Russian language plaque was torn off with "CZ" spray-painted in its place, and red toy soldiers and tanks with a Soviet flag have been placed all over the monument as a form of latent protest.

On one hand, it brings to mind the protests of military funerals by the Westboro Baptist Church--military graves protested for political ends. I also disapprove of the desecration of grave sites in general. On the other hand, the monument is dedicated to soldiers directly involved in their occupation, so I can see where the protesters might have a good point.

Thoughts?