[WIP - Full] Succubus Rhapsodia (English) - Plains, Hills, and Cages Edition

[WitheredGryphon]

There isn't a need to, unless you're curious - I'd be hypocritical to blame you.
I'll have a script count and dump the responsible 300 actions. Maybe wait until then?

The 'void' seems to be an incorrect call of skill_can_use?, which is often used for action selection. I'll also upgrade the way the error is reported. It happened to me most often when in complicated, multiple holds. I hope I'm innocent in the matter

Oh, right. I'll have a look into this too; your SR_Util code can work, since no that many messages go through there.
My most hated overflow is the climax one ("Playerは、意識が朦朧としている……！qm"). Most of these are because of the former \q.

But there was others before (100% jp), they happen when the assembled text is too long. That won't help us much, sadly (like the characters count SR_util function I mentioned before) because En characters are much more inconsistent than Jp kanjis and kanas, in width. I've tried to use smtg similar in the 'check/analyze' textmaker (def self.make_condition_text(battler)), if you're curious.
-> We will actually have fewer overflows than the jp code, in general

Yeah dumping the problem actions would probably help isolate the issue. Good call. I'll hold off on that then.

I'm nowhere near far enough to encounter complex holds so that's something I'll need to see when I get there. Is the incorrect call something that crashes the game?

It's also really strange that line is overflowing. Where/when is that displayed in the game? Would you be able to get a screenshot so I have a better idea of what's going on? I've tested the Lesser Succubus climax text a couple of times and didn't notice any overflow issues so that's somewhat concerning.

 

[Strange]

It's also really strange that line is overflowing. Where/when is that displayed in the game? Would you be able to get a screenshot so I have a better idea of what's going on? I've tested the Lesser Succubus climax text a couple of times and didn't notice any overflow issues so that's somewhat concerning.

Damn, of course I didn't save my example Here's another:

It's an indication I forgot to add the \¶ at the end of that line, after "scent!". (edit: that's very relevant to your SkillText work, by the way)
The climax one happens with simultaneous climax - which should be handled by another part of the mod. Hence why I currently don't understand why a \q\m would be there
When in Debug, you'll get this line from Battlelog (one pop-up for every character over the width limit):

print "エラー：この行は横文字数を超過しています。\n文字数：#{(x/14)-1}/26　横幅：#{4 + x}/#{self.contents.width}"

Note that self.contents.width is very wonky with English (I blamed Meyrio before, but was wrong).

 

[WitheredGryphon]

Damn, of course I didn't save my example Here's another:
View attachment 44978
It's an indication I forgot to add the \¶ at the end of that line, after "scent!". (edit: that's very relevant to your SkillText work, by the way)
The climax one happens with simultaneous climax - which should be handled by another part of the mod. Hence why I currently don't understand why a \q\m would be there
When in Debug, you'll get this line from Battlelog:

print "エラー：この行は横文字数を超過しています。\n文字数：#{(x/14)-1}/26　横幅：#{4 + x}/#{self.contents.width}"

Note that self.contents.width is very wonky with English (I blamed Meyrio before, but was wrong).

That actually reminds me (this is probably just for testing purposes in your screenshot but it's worth bringing up now)- for any ellipsis do use a single "..." with English periods so that it would look as such:

"A magical fragrance spreads...!"

And also be sure to replace the JPN exclamation marks with English marks. They have different spacing which is why it looks like there's a space between "scent" and "!"

This is pretty easily handled in the SkillText since it's all conditional I can just handcraft the line breaks myself. But I haven't exactly done much of the SkillText so that could change.

 

[Strange]

And also be sure to replace the JPN exclamation marks with English marks. They have different spacing which is why it looks like there's a space between "scent" and "!"

Nicely spotted! Makes it easy to fix - though I've read in the changelog that was changed anyway. Actually I must've removed the \q for the spacing before, or it'd look like (reverting to the initial code):

Spoiler: ellipsis

While we're on the subject:
- I agree all jp "!" need to go. They're space-wasting for little to no benefit.
- but I like the japanese ellipsis, and I've been keeping them around. It's only 1 character VS 3 in English.
Well, both characters are very easy to mass-replace should we come to a definite verdict.
edit: for idle comparison purposes:

...Not too bad either

 

[WitheredGryphon]

Nicely spotted! Makes it easy to fix - though I've read in the changelog that was changed anyway. Actually I must've removed the \q for the spacing before, or it'd look like (reverting to the initial code):
View attachment 44979
While we're on the subject:
- I agree all jp "!" need to go. They're space-wasting for little to no benefit.
- but I like the japanese ellipsis, and I've been keeping them around. It's only 1 character VS 3 in English.
Well, both characters are very easy to mass-replace should we come to a definite verdict.
edit: for idle comparison purposes:
View attachment 44980
...Not too bad either

It's one character but takes the space of 3. There's no reason to be using these much in the same way Japanese quotation marks do not belong in an English translation. Also, you can remove anything in excess of three dots in an ellipsis. That's not something English does and it looks amateurish, if you'll allow me to be blunt.

There are *very* seldom occasions where more than three would slide in my view, but those would be in the dialogue and not something you'd be messing with as far as battle text is concerned.

To be perfectly honest, I would be fine removing many of these ellipsis altogether as Japanese has a tendency to far overuse them anyway.

Edit:

A minor nitpick, I think a better way of wording might be "A magical fragrance fills the air...!" instead of just "spreads...!"

 

[Strange]

It's one character but takes the space of 3. There's no reason to be using these much in the same way Japanese quotation marks do not belong in an English translation. Also, you can remove anything in excess of three dots in an ellipsis. That's not something English does and it looks amateurish, if you'll allow me to be blunt.

You mean "......"? Absolutely. The above was but a typesetting test. Even an ellipsis fan like me concurs...
As for the ... VS … I think it's mostly an aesthetics choice. But yes we'll need to be consistent at some point.
edit: I don't know what to do with all these "...!". They don't look bad and the dev put them e-very-where. I have mixed feelings about either eradicating them (so just "!"), or keeping them as they are; I'm not sure what the more respectful approach is.

A minor nitpick, I think a better way of wording might be "A magical fragrance fills the air...!" instead of just "spreads...!"

True - I appreciate those nitpicks, btw. I've been wanting some for years
Ideally I'd also want to avoid verb repetitions, in case variations of the same line are likely to occur on a same page (vague degree is a good sample material for that).

 

[WitheredGryphon]

You mean "......"? Absolutely. The above was but a typesetting test. Even an ellipsis fan like me concurs...
As for the ... VS … I think it's mostly an aesthetics choice. But yes we'll need to be consistent at some point.


True - I appreciate those nitpicks, btw. I've been wanting some for years
Ideally I'd also want to avoid verb repetitions, in case variations of the same line are likely to occur on a same page (vague degree is a good sample material for that).

ULMF renders them differently but the problem with them in RPGMXP is that with (what I'm assuming is) the UTF ellipsis is they sit in the middle of the word. If the ellipsis character properly sat at the bottom of the word like normal ellipsis in English, I would be a lot more open to the discussion of … vs ...

But as it stands those ellipsis characters are displaying in a way that's counterintuitive to English writing by sitting halfway up the word. So I'd much prefer us stick to three periods to avoid that problem altogether.

As for the "...!" punctuation, I'm sort of in the same boat and think a mixed approach is good. For example I think it fits well with the "spreads / fills the air...!" but maybe a bit repetitive with the "inhales".

I think a lot of that is going to come down to your judgement, though, so I'll leave that to you. Ultimately the goal is just to avoid repetition like you said.

 

[Strange]

those ellipsis characters are displaying in a way that's counterintuitive to English writing by sitting halfway up the word

I think that's the core of the discussion. In my eyes:
- English ... is meaningful. We could often replace it with It indicates some thought is being given, or should be given.
- Japanese use … as a rythm indication. Just a pause to catch one's breath, or wait for the sword to reach the enemy, in battle narration.

In any case, there's no rush to come to a definite answer. I'd lean toward your opinion, by the way. But as you said the dev/Japanese in general use them way too often. So I thought of keeping the japanese middle-line "・・・", or even "〜" as a better replacement. Or we'd be swamped hand-replacing these 3-characters ... all over the place.

When we decide on something, all it will take is a mass notepad++ substitution. There's no risk to the code whatsoever. So let's wait a bit? Maybe we'll come with a stroke of genius in the meanwhile?

 

[WitheredGryphon]

I think that's the core of the discussion. In my eyes:
- English ... is meaningful. We could often replace it with It indicates some thought is being given, or should be given.
- Japanese use … as a rythm indication. Just a pause to catch one's breath, or wait for the sword to reach the enemy, in battle narration.

In any case, there's no rush to come to a definite answer. I'd lean toward your opinion, by the way. But as you said the dev/Japanese in general use them way too often. So I thought of keeping the japanese middle-line "・・・", or even "〜" as a better replacement. Or we'd be swamped hand-replacing these 3-characters ... all over the place.

When we decide on something, all it will take is a mass notepad++ substitution. There's no risk to the code whatsoever. So let's wait a bit? Maybe we'll come with a stroke of genius in the meanwhile?

Right, I think there's two parts being conflated here:
1. The discussion between Japanese and English ellipsis
2. The discussion on over usage of ellipsis

With regards to point one - I don't think your interpretation of Japanese ellipsis is quite correct. Or rather, you may be reading into it too much. They are, for almost all intents and purposes, identical to the English counterpart with some exceptions:

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My mindset with this project is to create an English translation. That ultimately means purging as much Japanese as I physically can from this game. In other words, anything related to Japanese being left in this game is a last resort. Like I mentioned awhile back, if I find a way to get italics and or underlining into the game, I'm removing 『』as well. These marks are not English and simply don't belong in English works.

As for point two - You have creative liberty to an extent here. I don't think there's any disagreement on the over usage of ellipsis being repetitive. If rewriting the punctuation by removing the ellipsis altogether is how you resolve that, feel free.

 

[Strange]

I'll need to rewrite my code, as I've managed to break make_skill_action_result...
But once I'm done I believe you'll find that pretty interesting. This is the right place to learn how SR handles enemies. Each of them is RNG'ed to some extent, and they pull from different movesets according to the situation. It's non-standard, hard to explain, perhaps harder to understand. That feature is one of SQ's legacy.

I don't have any reliable examples/cases of the ct > 300 bug. It'll help if you could provide the troop, or the location and party composition, of battles in which you repeatedly encountered this.

Or rather, you may be reading into it too much.

That's one shot that hits home

That ultimately means purging as much Japanese as I physically can from this game. In other words, anything related to Japanese being left in this game is a last resort. Like I mentioned awhile back, if I find a way to get italics and or underlining into the game, I'm removing 『』as well. These marks are not English and simply don't belong in English works.

I shouldn't mention that code then:

      # Font.bold
      @now_text.gsub!(/\\[B]/) { "\031" }
      # Font.italic
      @now_text.gsub!(/\\[I]/) { "\032" }

It was disabled in the battle log, but you can use it in regular map narration, for instance.
I don't remember how to turn it off, though but I can look into it. Or you can also mess with the specific bitmap. I won't get in your way, as English gains a lot from these.

I think it's ok to have a more relaxed approach. Professionalism and aesthetics are two related, but separate matters.
- RPGs in particular always use specific gimmicks to refer to technical terms
- H-game players all like, to some extent, the Japanese punctuation idiosyncracies. Or so I thought.
In any case, we're on the same page when it comes to quality standards. It won't take much convincing to make me ditch any and all characters found

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, but consider holding your horses for the time being; maybe your stance will soften a bit after seeing how it all looks in-game.

...and well, if it does not, I'll yield. Your arguments are less subjective than mine. But please give it a little more time? Like a few weeks/months? Anything punctuation in the code will takes seconds to change; but reverting would be much harder.

edit2: this happens when you can't see a ^ to save your life... (^= below)

    when "\031" # \B太字 - Font.bold (排他的論理和での反転)
      @text_sprite.bitmap.font.bold ^= true
    when "\032" # \I斜体 - Font.italic
      @text_sprite.bitmap.font.italic ^= true

=> This is \Bbold\B and this is \Iitalic\I!

 

[WitheredGryphon]

I'll need to rewrite my code, as I've managed to break make_skill_action_result...
But once I'm done I believe you'll find that pretty interesting. This is the right place to learn how SR handles enemies. Each of them is RNG'ed to some extent, and they pull from different movesets according to the situation. It's non-standard, hard to explain, perhaps harder to understand. That feature is one of SQ's legacy.

I don't have any reliable examples/cases of the ct > 300 bug. It'll help if you could provide the troop, or the location and party composition, of battles in which you repeatedly encountered this.

I didn't have anything but the starter lesser succubus and myself in the party. You could actually just start a new game -> grab the succubus -> go straight to bed and that's how I got the error to show up. Idk if 2999 has patched anything related to that so I still need to check some of that on my end.

H-game players all like, to some extent, the Japanese punctuation idiosyncracies. Or so I thought.

H-game players are used to amateur (and that's being very generous) "translations." This is an unfortunate reality when the overwhelming majority of them are Google Translated, unedited garbage. I can count on one hand the number of professional translators/publishers working on H-games (not VNs). I'd rather not have this project become apathetic as a result of that. I want to see Succubus Rhapsodia be a diamond in the rough.

but consider holding your horses for the time being; maybe your stance will soften a bit after seeing how it all looks in-game.

I am willing to wait, especially if there is something you're looking to develop to help with reversions in case of errors with mass replacement of course. But I wouldn't suggest holding your breath on me changing my mind about the replacements. These will invariably change. It's just a matter of when. I will put it on the backburner for now, but do plan to replace these in the future.

edit2: this happens when you can't see a ^ to save your life... (^= below)

That's perfect, thank you. I might actually go back and redo some of the translations now that I have access to those.

 

[Strange]

I didn't have anything but the starter lesser succubus and myself in the party. You could actually just start a new game -> grab the succubus -> go straight to bed

Oh damn, these are bedwar battles. I never test these.
Here's a ct300 test logger that should work - I didn't have an example to test it. You can unrem line 1990 (#p ary_debug) for turn-by-turn display of what actually happened behind the curtains, before every AI move. I'll remove this file tomorrow or something.

H-game players are used to amateur (and that's being very generous) "translations." This is an unfortunate reality when the overwhelming majority of them are Google Translated, unedited garbage. I can count on one hand the number of professional translators/publishers working on H-games (not VNs). I'd rather not have this project become apathetic as a result of that. I want to see Succubus Rhapsodia be a diamond in the rough.

Damn, you should've been an orator instead. That's one good point.
I'm really tired rn, so I won't answer right away, but could you make a list of the specific points that bother you? We'll get them out of the way one by one. Starting with the Japanese ellipsis, if your mind is dead set on eradicating the the poor thing
I'll need to pull the full lists of my current skill/items/etc database sooner or later, that'll be a good time to review the syntax we opt for, point-by-point. Having a look a at a few maps of yours, and the current skilltext, would give me a better idea as well.

I would defend a few specific cases (『』or the occasional ellipsis) in extraordinary, punctual circumstances, but I'm well-aware we should be on the same page ASAP since we'll be tackling text from different sides of the same game. Let's not make hasty decisions either. Because no, once we've decided, we won't turn back on the decision (I'm being wishy-washy because my previous decisions weren't set in stone)

 

[WitheredGryphon]

Oh damn, these are bedwar battles. I never test these.
Here's a ct300 test logger that should work - I didn't have an example to test it. You can unrem line 1990 (#p ary_debug) for turn-by-turn display of what actually happened behind the curtains, before every AI move. I'll remove this file tomorrow or something.


Damn, you should've been an orator instead. That's one good point.
I'm really tired rn, so I won't answer right away, but could you make a list of the specific points that bother you? We'll get them out of the way one by one. Starting with the Japanese ellipsis, if your mind is dead set on eradicating the the poor thing
I'll need to pull the full lists of my current skill/items/etc database sooner or later, that'll be a good time to review the syntax we opt for, point-by-point. Having a look a at a few maps of yours, and the current skilltext, would give me a better idea as well.

I would defend a few specific cases (『』or the occasional ellipsis) in extraordinary, punctual circumstances, but I'm well-aware we should be on the same page ASAP since we'll be tackling text from different sides of the same game. Let's not make hasty decisions either. Because no, once we've decided, we won't turn back on the decision (I'm being wishy-washy because my previous decisions weren't set in stone)

I could list my points out but it would involve me repeating the same thing for each point. The reasoning being Japanese punctuation marks do not belong in an English translation. Take the word of a very renowned professional video game translator -

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As for the maps, I'll look at uploading those tomorrow. I'm pretty exhausted today myself. The Skilltext I'm pretty sure hasn't changed

 

[Strange]

Oh, right there are font colors too.
Heya! Welcome \C[3]home\C[0], \C[2]sweetie\C[0]!
This is \Bbold\B and this is \Iitalic\I!

The only color code I ever remember is 2 = red, so don't ask me (and 0 = default)
IOW: there goes the need for 『』. I agree a consistent color code (like green for places, red for tasks, etc.) is an improvement when it comes to emphasizing words. But that'd be considerable effort on my/the database's side; just food for thoughts, but the idea is tempting.

I've revised my ct300 script so it doesn't send 300+ lines every time. Also, tried a new game, started a bed-in battle with starter girl... And no problem at all; but I only battled twice.
Well, my script should work, probably? Try starting a new game yourself, or talk with リセットメイド right of your home: she's supposed to fix characters broken by earlier versions - among other chores I haven't looked into.

I could list my points out but it would involve me repeating the same thing for each point. The reasoning being Japanese punctuation marks do not belong in an English translation. Take the word of a very renowned professional video game translator -

You must be registered to see the links

I like a good read I'll read that thoroughly later; I liked most of what I've read so far, but not all.
Anyway, I understand what you mean. How about we postpone that conversation, and collect concrete examples? Either corroborating or contradicting our points? Not actively, that'd waste valuable time, but just picking up the best examples as they come, while we work?
I'm sure we'll reach a compromise without too much fuss.

edit: how many pages are there, even! I'll definitely read through that, 'tis interesting.

 

[WitheredGryphon]

Oh, right there are font colors too.
Heya! Welcome \C[3]home\C[0], \C[2]sweetie\C[0]!
This is \Bbold\B and this is \Iitalic\I!
View attachment 44987
The only color code I ever remember is 2 = red, so don't ask me (and 0 = default)
IOW: there goes the need for 『』. I agree a consistent color code (like green for places, red for tasks, etc.) is an improvement when it comes to emphasizing words. But that'd be considerable effort on my/the database's side; just food for thoughts, but the idea is tempting.

I've revised my ct300 script so it doesn't send 300+ lines every time. Also, tried a new game, started a bed-in battle with starter girl... And no problem at all; but I only battled twice.
Well, my script should work, probably? Try starting a new game yourself, or talk with リセットメイド right of your home: she's supposed to fix characters broken by earlier versions - among other chores I haven't looked into.

I like a good read I'll read that thoroughly later; I liked most of what I've read so far, but not all.
Anyway, I understand what you mean. How about we postpone that conversation, and collect concrete examples? Either corroborating or contradicting our points? Not actively, that'd waste valuable time, but just picking up the best examples as they come, while we work?
I'm sure we'll reach a compromise without too much fuss.

edit: how many pages are there, even! I'll definitely read through that, 'tis interesting.

Colors are something I can definitely look at using on my end as far as dialogue goes, although no particular examples come to mind. It's definitely possible some stuff will crop up later that could use them. The game already uses a golden color for explanations so I don't know what other colors are already in use. Might be prudent to be careful of that.

I'll also continue to reiterate that punctuation is not something I'm budging on. Whether you want to do the replacement now or later is up to you since they're your files. If I have to remove them by release then I'll do that. I don't want to give the impression this is something my opinion can be swayed on. Yes I'm being a hard ass about this, but it's not out of malice. I want this project to be consistently high quality, as if it were an official translation. Leaving things like Japanese punctuation inside, at best, might make people think it's an oversight. At worst, it makes the project feel amateurish, and that's exactly what I want to avoid.

Hopefully that makes my point a little more clear. I'll give your CT300 fix a look tomorrow. I went ahead and upgraded to 2999 tonight myself (still need to check for script conflicts though)

 

[Strange]

My notes about the linked

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:

Spoiler: 1st thougths

Chapter Titles: I'm jealous. I should really up my typesetting game; take a room a night and two, just GIMP and I. Aw that sounds awful...
A Fiery, Firey Fire: +1, great choice. Technically incorrect English can be a plus, when consistent on certain characters.
Hold That Thought: I disagree. Either FLINT! to emphasize (generally), or a hint about context or intonation is needed. We lose too much over the jp.
Chew on This: agree on Caramel, disagree with the choice. Since it's a stick joke, that should be "caramel bar", or the name of it (smtg like 'pocky stick', but the caramel verion. I would know if I ate sweets.)
Describing Items: ah, the pain. We'll have to comb these together, I'm afraid. The hours spent on the wiki to make them half-right...
Article Addendum: interesting. Let's say we choose to say 「Sword」 for a piece of equipment. Then we don't need to worry about articles at all, since the unorthodox marking makes the player pause, then seamlessly register the marking as "this is a weapon". The player auto-translates "Found 「Sword」!" to "I found a sword". According to how I see it. Maybe not 「」, tho. Sadly 【Abilities】 are inconsistent in SR and mods, but I'd like to fix that.
Is It Really Her: depends. Jp are fond of their genderbending; I'd probably go full "Nicole" (and get bug reports).
Clothesline Talk: I agree; I never run away, so I'm no translator. That, and Clothesline is a berserker-type weapon in other old games. But I'd probably opt for a similar compromise, and then forget to review it...
Do Ya Yado?: +1. I'd probably try to push a 'Welcome to YADO!' inside joke on a character, if possible.
Formattin’ Forever: +1. +10 to "That just feels lazy, you know?"
Pray It Loud: +1. The pain of these phonetic jokes...
Graveyard News: good brainteaser. I'd think Sunset is related to how Miso soups can be murky/opaque. 'Here the graves never shine'...?
The Giant Leader: +1. I wish there was a way to make 'lead'/le-ed sound like 'lead' (the metal or 'led astray')
Bird of Doom: +2. SR_annouce, anyone? xD
The Vomit Button: fun, but I can see myself having a HARD time.
Pray Some: ? no opinion.
Name Thyself: oh, right. Pro〜cra〜sti〜na〜tion, can't hear you lalala!
Hard Mode Mania: +1. If you can undeniably improve the game, go for it! (With restraint)
Rubbernecks Revisited: +1. Another sort of emphasis that's harder to think about/plan ahead.
Battle Square: +100. I feel the pain. We have a not-100%-consistent dev and 20+ modders. PitA but fun xD
Horoscope Equipment: +1. Absolutely.
Poetry Club... I'd try to go with rhymes, at least. Alexandrines, at best. Haikus are Eastern; the West has its own poetry rules. They might not be equally old, but I'd abide by them if possible. But I can't say I fully disagree.
Peace at any Price: I would've understood that as 'yellowbellies'. And I often stick to my 1st thought.
Period Piece: " = forbidden. Problem solved.
The Wise Bird Talks: I strongly disagree. Cf Poetry Club. Also, 'Running off' is very, very different from 'Running away'. He overthougth the wrong things (hello, keetle!)
Hot Water Haiku: meh. He missed the syllabes count too (not everyone speaks American...). But it still looks okay.
Spoils of War: I feel that. +1 point for〝Items〟(and minus one for the loss of text space)
Hello, Lighter: Beyond me. How can I know what's the "correct" writing in a f****ng phonetic alphabet, of a word they even can't pronounce right, to begin with? That's one big loophole in Japanese I doubt I'll ever get over. Coming from someone whose mouth invariably fails to pronounce many languages right (although the brain did register!). [\RANT] So yes, this is exactly why we need dedicated translators. So, +1?
Avert Your Eyes: +1. Yes, English is more vulgar. That's normal. Like you wouldn't translate a sentence the same in Spain or Guatemala. Translator's discretion; I'll add consistence needs be respected, and that vulgarity is best avoided, whenever possible (cf Hello, Lighter)
Cohorting: +1 "it's very tiring" indeed.
Fueling the Fire: *grumble grumble* +1 anyway.
Notice This: I... don't understand? I'd make a linebreak after 'bust it open\n', is all I can say.
Honorifics Anonymous: horrendous horrific honorifics. Exterminate! Exterminate! +1
This is Murrica: +1, nuthin' to add.
Head Chomper: interesting. That's why 2nd checks are important, esp. when working alone. The PR is the real VIP (ok maybe not xD)
Mending: fun. +1 for the great way to avoid vulgarity.
2nd page is mostly redundant...
Potty Reminder: kind of hard... Translator's choice. I'm not too good with potty puns, so I'd probably skip it too (provided I was aware there was a joke...).
Select Your Destiny: +1. We're dealing with that (nametags, punctutaion marks, etc.)
Uncovering Secrets: lalala I didn't hear a thing. (how much text are we TLing, that won't EVER show!?)
Extra Careful: relatable >_>
Cold Ease: seriously, the PR is important. And preferably should live on the other side of the Earth the TL lives in.
Gender Gap: Ah! TODO: complain about the use of 'they/their'. We only have 1 'real' male, so I'd like to stick to 'she/her' + a gsub! just in case. I understand the need of 'they' in a politically correct, genderless society, but it doesn't belong in the game. TODO2: properly check "def boy?", see if suitable.
A Rare Find: maaaan. +3 for sympathy/empathy.
Icons of Death: TODO: check the icon in a few individualities. Maaaybe look into using icons elsewhere? Probably too much work for the gain.
No Bones About It: AKA we need playtesters.
Being Cheesy: this is silly. Every human being loves cheese. Those who don't are aliens in disguise. Lactose intolerant? Sucks for you.
Bone Home: fun titbit.
Waste Not: too high-level for me xD
Can’t Wait: bwah ah ah. THEY CAN'T EVEN DO THAT! Even though I chewed a lot of the work for them <grin> (I can't either btw. I'm able to, but not easily and the low quality would've stopped me anyway. Sheer effort can't replace a real TL)
National Secret: why would you even consider raising a star-spangled banner!? Ridiculous, but funny to read about. If a tad concerning. +0
Name Thy Foe: +1. Relatable, eh?
Collaboration Across Nations: well we have a Boss rush, and future bosses-to-be. Sucks to be us xD
God is God: ...how is that even an issue? -1 for idleness (says the pot)
The Secret of the Tea: +1. Simple is best. 1st ideas are often best.
Wait a Minute!: not interested. But good point made on the digits.
Flint Breaks Down: ? isn't that just the popular 'nighttime horror stories' Japanese are fond of? The sillier the better?
\the end

Good points were made. They were mainly irrelevant to what we were discussing, but interesting still. And useful to think ahead some healthy TL guidelines. Feel free to review my points you disagree with, if you feel that'll help us further down the road (and you actually read the whole thing yourself ah ah )

Yes I'm being a hard ass about this, but it's not out of malice. I want this project to be consistently high quality, as if it were an official translation. Leaving things like Japanese punctuation inside, at best, might make people think it's an oversight. At worst, it makes the project feel amateurish, and that's exactly what I want to avoid.

Hey, hey, let's keep being on the same page. We have in common, being as stubborn as mules. Let's not butt heads when we don't need to. Bokuwa - I'm not into that, you hentaii!

Spoiler: To be clear:

I willingly and knowingly made some amateur-ish temporary decisions. Because they fitted best a game, I feared wouldn't ever see a dependable translator - so Japanese sentence and characters would forever remain; the lesser evil, if I may. I'm aware many of these decisions are now obsolete or pointless, and need revising. That makes me no less proud of the work I have behind me already.

Then was then and now is now; 'now' there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Please don't think, or make it sound like I don't value that, much less get in your way. Being uncompromising when it comes to quality, is something I can relate to - believe it or not!

TL,WR: Amateur-ish is not good enough for SR, being the brilliant gem it is. We fully agree.


As more or less agreed, I'll myself wipe out every "…", sub every "： - ? - 。-！and …" myself, from each and every single script line. I'll have a few 'real' suspension marks to reinstate, but that won't kill me. Here's to hoping I've been consistent, which I usually am.
I'll try "、" as well (just a tiny bit afraid about this one, but not the slightest bit reluctant).
The "〜" and "ー" I'd keep until the line is translated (for tone context. Then wipe 'em out it is). If I ever think 'maybe'... Nah, prolly not.

The "・" I'd like to keep as a system separator. Example when you check/analyze an enemy. Please comment on the format I chose; it could look better, possibly. It does look good to me, and does not Japanese IN THE LEAST, but not only my opinion counts. And of course in a sentence I'd napalm 'em with barely a 2nd thought.
[edit: I found a replacement below anyway ᛫ But that'd be borderline asiaphobic to go that far.]

So I was asking, "what else?" There's no rush to answer. Take your time, and copy to a notepad page lines that made you think "Hell〜 he's so gonna be a｛pig｝-headed『amateur』about that too…" (humor intended). Then we'll review them, in all open-mindedness (as long as you provide the beer. Or the succubus dancer).

On my side, I will also, relaxedly, collect lines that I think could make you tick. There won't be many. OK don't quote me on this later.
...and I certainly will not consider using any Japanese punctuation mark for any punctuation purpose, if that wasn't clear. Ideally, I wouldn't even consider them at all, and even lack counter-examples to provide. Like, the "…" matter was because of the omnipresent "…！"s; I'll gladly get rid of them, but I wanted to think it through. There are 2044 … in the code! And 7033！<Hulk table-flip>
For Chaosia's sake, and they call me a bulldozer! Bulldoze I shall, but let me warm up the engine!

There is no need to insist on something we mostly agreed upon already. It takes one headstrong donkey to know one

PS: I've bookmarked

You must be registered to see the links

. There'll be enough 100% gaijin signs to choose from, for ꧁presentation꧂ Not these ugly things, of course.

Again, take the above with humor. Chill, crack a joke. We both want the same thing, and we're both very serious about it. Let's keep taking out stuff that might get in our way, one by one, little by little. And gloriously take down the behemoth. Deal?

--------------------------------------------
SR_announce what-to-do?

Spoiler

Dammit, the announce_window.png would be 264x60, but they have 44px cut off... We have 640-420-32 = 188px usable, with no good way around that, though I could cheat a few px (420 is from the position, 32 from the text box's margin).
If we discard the \\H heart display, I could get you this as a failsafe:
But I don't like it, it looks bad.
Code (discarded) for reference:

  def announce_draw
    self.contents.clear
    # 描画開始
    x = 0
    y = 10
    # ２行ある場合はY座標を調整する
    y = 0 if @text_box[0].include?("\n")
s_wide = self.contents.text_size(@text_box[0]).width
    #p s_wide #218
if s_wide < 188
    # c に 1 文字を取得 (文字が取得できなくなるまでループ)
    while ((c = @text_box[0].slice!(/./m)) != nil)
      case c
      when "\H" # ハート
        self.contents.blt(x + 3, y + 14, heart, Rect.new(0, 0, 10, 10))
        x += 15
        next
      when "\n" # 改行
        x = 0
        y += 18
        next
      end
      self.contents.draw_text(x, y, 32, 32, c)
      # x に描画した文字の幅を加算
      x += self.contents.text_size(c).width
    end
else
      self.contents.draw_text(x, y, 188, 32, @text_box[0])
end
  end
end

...But I would suggest shorter lines over that solution. Sadly the condensate feature is hardly usable for character-by-character display. There would be ways around that but I doubt it's worth it. I got a refresher on bitmaps but that'd still be a pain.
For reference (and the simplest way to measure text):

def hor_size(text)
  return Bitmap.new(640, 480).text_size(text).width
end
p hor_size("Press the 'Cancel' key to access the menu") #=> 288
p hor_size("『Confirm』") #=> 82
p hor_size("Confirm key") #=> 83
p hor_size("[Confirm]") #=> 66 #yay for maths-based punctuation!
p hor_size("[Confirm]・[CTRL]: Dash") #=> 173 < 188 check!
p hor_size("[Cancel]: Open the menu") #=>176 < 188 check!

This would look like:
which looks more satisfying to me. Despite the 173 figure being obviously wrong => it's around 136px.
(note: I moved this hor_size function as a global one in 魔_English_MOD_Zethin-temp.rb. It's handy and I'll probably need it for moar dark rituals involving text boxes genetic engineering. I'll probably move the 2 to my cook&play file, because simple battles are there)
I'm not gunning for ・. but I think it looks good and doesn't look more Japanese than, say, Π, Σ, or the ᚠᚢᚦᚨᚱ etc. barely anybody knows.
...Thanks to that I just found 16EB -> ᛫ It's as Japanese as Jörmungandr. Looks good in-game as well, 7px VS the jp 14px...

Well, these are the kind of silly exceptions I might come up with, and was referring to. As you probably agree, they have nothing to do with Japanese anymore? I'm not trying to be a smart alec here. If you disagree, I'd find it odd, but would use either ᛫ or another format. It's no big deal and the result genuinely does not look amateurish in my eyes.

=> But in this one case, I think the very best solution is to rewrite the code for SR_announce to support colors. Just ask if you concur.
By the way, simple battles will go through Announce - so not just fixed text but also text with variables... Well, maybe more about that later.

I finally found "Pewpewは、意識が朦朧としている……！qm" - in CommonEvents; somehow I didn't think to check there... From what I see, there'll be around 800 \w\m\y\q to replace to \ɯ\ɱ\ȳ\¶ (I'm using T++ & an older SR to test). We'll have no way around this.
How about exporting a temporary full batch of the SR+scrpm_2999.atc rxdatas with these substituted? That'd make our data consistent, and we could look for issues straight away - if any at all. No rush, but I'm relieved to know where the text gliches came from - it was obvious, in hindsight
PS: oh Santa Maria and Klaus and Barbapapa. How am I even gonna spoiler all of this properly? (ーー ) edit: somehow managed?

 

[WitheredGryphon]

As more or less agreed, I'll myself wipe out every "…", sub every "： - ? - 。-！and …" myself, from each and every single script line. I'll have a few 'real' suspension marks to reinstate, but that won't kill me. Here's to hoping I've been consistent, which I usually am.
I'll try "、" as well (just a tiny bit afraid about this one, but not the slightest bit reluctant).
The "〜" and "ー" I'd keep until the line is translated (for tone context. Then wipe 'em out it is). If I ever think 'maybe'... Nah, prolly not.

The "・" I'd like to keep as a system separator. Example when you check/analyze an enemy. Please comment on the format I chose; it could look better, possibly. It does look good to me, and does not Japanese IN THE LEAST, but not only my opinion counts. And of course in a sentence I'd napalm 'em with barely a 2nd thought.
[edit: I found a replacement below anyway ᛫ But that'd be borderline asiaphobic to go that far.]

So I was asking, "what else?" There's no rush to answer. Take your time, and copy to a notepad page lines that made you think "Hell〜 he's so gonna be a｛pig｝-headed『amateur』about that too…" (humor intended). Then we'll review them, in all open-mindedness (as long as you provide the beer. Or the succubus dancer).

On my side, I will also, relaxedly, collect lines that I think could make you tick. There won't be many. OK don't quote me on this later.
...and I certainly will not consider using any Japanese punctuation mark for any punctuation purpose, if that wasn't clear. Ideally, I wouldn't even consider them at all, and even lack counter-examples to provide. Like, the "…" matter was because of the omnipresent "…！"s; I'll gladly get rid of them, but I wanted to think it through. There are 2044 … in the code! And 7033！<Hulk table-flip>
For Chaosia's sake, and they call me a bulldozer! Bulldoze I shall, but let me warm up the engine!

There is no need to insist on something we mostly agreed upon already. It takes one headstrong donkey to know one [/SPOILER]

I'm still conflicted on what I want to do with tildes. I haven't decided on a good course of action, so I'm leaving them in for now, just replacing them with ~ because it takes less screen space. You can leave those alone if you want, or change them to ~. I might go back and swap them at some point myself. I believe I left these inside of Black Souls II as well.

ー is just an elongation so I've replaced it by elongating the word itself. "なーに?" => "Whaaat?" just as a quick example, although it's probably a bad one because なーに actually has other connotations, but you get my point. Sometimes there's context that provides a better way of translating it, but I would default to just elongating the word itself if nothing springs to mind. We can review translations closer to release.

I'm fine with the separator since it has a functional use. You can leave those alone (or change them if you want, it's up to you).

Again, take the above with humor. Chill, crack a joke. We both want the same thing, and we're both very serious about it. Let's keep taking out stuff that might get in our way, one by one, little by little. And gloriously take down the behemoth. Deal?

Indeed, and I may have misunderstood what you meant when you said list out examples so that's my fault and I apologize for that.

SR_announce what-to-do?

Spoiler

Dammit, the announce_window.png would be 264x60, but they have 44px cut off... We have 640-420-32 = 188px usable, with no good way around that, though I could cheat a few px (420 is from the position, 32 from the text box's margin).
If we discard the \\H heart display, I could get you this as a failsafe:
View attachment 44993But I don't like it, it looks bad.
Code (discarded) for reference:

  def announce_draw
    self.contents.clear
    # 描画開始
    x = 0
    y = 10
    # ２行ある場合はY座標を調整する
    y = 0 if @text_box[0].include?("\n")
s_wide = self.contents.text_size(@text_box[0]).width
    #p s_wide #218
if s_wide < 188
    # c に 1 文字を取得 (文字が取得できなくなるまでループ)
    while ((c = @text_box[0].slice!(/./m)) != nil)
      case c
      when "\H" # ハート
        self.contents.blt(x + 3, y + 14, heart, Rect.new(0, 0, 10, 10))
        x += 15
        next
      when "\n" # 改行
        x = 0
        y += 18
        next
      end
      self.contents.draw_text(x, y, 32, 32, c)
      # x に描画した文字の幅を加算
      x += self.contents.text_size(c).width
    end
else
      self.contents.draw_text(x, y, 188, 32, @text_box[0])
end
  end
end

...But I would suggest shorter lines over that solution. Sadly the condensate feature is hardly usable for character-by-character display. There would be ways around that but I doubt it's worth it. I got a refresher on bitmaps but that'd still be a pain.
For reference (and the simplest way to measure text):

def hor_size(text)
  return Bitmap.new(640, 480).text_size(text).width
end
p hor_size("Press the 'Cancel' key to access the menu") #=> 288
p hor_size("『Confirm』") #=> 82
p hor_size("Confirm key") #=> 83
p hor_size("[Confirm]") #=> 66 #yay for maths-based punctuation!
p hor_size("[Confirm]・[CTRL]: Dash") #=> 173 < 188 check!
p hor_size("[Cancel]: Open the menu") #=>176 < 188 check!

This would look like:
View attachment 44994which looks more satisfying to me. Despite the 173 figure being obviously wrong => it's around 136px.
(note: I moved this hor_size function as a global one in 魔_English_MOD_Zethin-temp.rb. It's handy and I'll probably need it for moar dark rituals involving text boxes genetic engineering. I'll probably move the 2 to my cook&play file, because simple battles are there)
I'm not gunning for ・. but I think it looks good and doesn't look more Japanese than, say, Π, Σ, or the ᚠᚢᚦᚨᚱ etc. barely anybody knows.
...Thanks to that I just found 16EB -> ᛫ It's as Japanese as Jörmungandr. Looks good in-game as well, 7px VS the jp 14px...

As I wrote above, I'm fine with keeping the separator. I think that's a good compromise for the overly long text, all things considered. I'll swap that text into the hash table.

=> But in this one case, I think the very best solution is to rewrite the code for SR_announce to support colors. Just ask if you concur.
By the way, simple battles will go through Announce - so not just fixed text but also text with variables... Well, maybe more about that later.

I finally found "Pewpewは、意識が朦朧としている……！qm" - in CommonEvents; somehow I didn't think to check there... From what I see, there'll be around 800 \w\m\y\q to replace to \ɯ\ɱ\ȳ\¶ (I'm using T++ & an older SR to test). We'll have no way around this.
How about exporting a temporary full batch of the SR+scrpm_2999.atc rxdatas with these substituted? That'd make our data consistent, and we could look for issues straight away - if any at all. No rush, but I'm relieved to know where the text gliches came from - it was obvious, in hindsight
PS: oh Santa Maria and Klaus and Barbapapa. How am I even gonna spoiler all of this properly? (ーー ) edit: somehow managed?

I'm not sure I follow about SR_announce using colors? I don't particularly have a problem with it but it feels like you skipped a train of thought or something. Where do colors come in?

As for CommonEvents, I don't think it can be handled in Translator++, much to my chagrin. Translator++ splits on the text constantly throughout CommonEvents and doesn't include the escapes in some instances (e.g. qm, like you mentioned) which makes it impossible to replace in the editor. We'll have to do this manually. And I'm not sure how to go about recompiling CommonEvents since Translator++ usually handles that.

FWIW, Translator++ already does decompile all .rxdata. They're stored in /www/php/cache/XXXXXXX/. For some reason my previous few compilations haven't produced Ruby files, but Translator++ definitely can which provides direct access to the .rxdata scripting.

I'm not quite sure what to do with that as of yet. Part of me is thinking about writing a definition inside of the class that's called to display messages and just hook any text coming from CommonEvents. I'm open to ideas about this.

Edit:

By the way, if there's ever a word you see that you're like "... what does that mean?" give

You must be registered to see the links

a try.
追撃, for example, shows a lot of stuff about "pursuits" and stuff but is actually referencing "follow-up attacks." None of the common dictionaries I use pulled up that definition.

Also ULMF simply cannot handle the filesize of .zip no matter the compression method I use, so I'm just going to have to find a different storage method I think to host the Data folder...

 

[Strange]

I'm still conflicted on what I want to do with tildes.

Spoiler: I'd snip this if I was any more shameless >_<

The "〜" and "ー": yes, I didn't intend to keep them. Actually, that's why I was thinking of using the … mid-line ellipsis for, when we want to indicate a rythm hard to convey in English (where intonations are set in stone, unlike, say, Russian or Spanish.). Otherwise, I'm afraid we'll lose a bit of the initial intent/meaning. But you know better than me here. If you stick to a decision and are consistent, they'll be easy to find/revise later anyway.
EDIT: these middle points looks awful and unnatural. Please forget I've ever mentioned these abominations.
PS: if you really want to know, I'd favor … over tildes - for use inside a sentence. But that's just my dabbler's POV, because I do write actual ñ every now and then. The ー should be a-okay if we only use it as a replacement for a period (ie not a full stop intonation-wise). I won't be using 〜 and ー myself, or I'd mark the sentence for inspection. quote me on this!

Ignore the above. I blame the lack of sleep (if it's a synonym for idiocy). You meant sentences like these, right?
"Nyaaaaan " VS "Nyan 〜"
"Neeee, onii-san?" VS "Nee 〜 onii-san?" / "Say... Onii-san?"
"Kyaaaaa!" VS "Kya 〜!" / "Whoa 〜!"
Hard to say. I don't like repeating characters much, but we don't have many other means in our disposal in English...
After thinking about it, I have almost none of these on my side - since I usually have no speaker... So my opinion isn't worth much

The things that most bother me on my side look like this pitiful sight (old/ current):

Spoiler: NIGHTMARE

#インサート / Insert
#[レジスト] [→] 挿入する。[条件：双方裸] / 『Resist』『→』Put it in .『Req. both Nude』
This one I'm fine with the →. But I've been racking my head over how to make it presentable.
It gets trickier with other body(?) parts:
#ディルドインマウス / Oral Dildo Insert
#[レジスト] [張子→口] ディルドを口に挿入する。[条件：自分裸] / 『Resist』『Strapon→Mouth』Put it in her mouth.『Req. self Nude』
This looks awful ... Dildo? Toy? Strapon? And the 『』 lost its intended purpose since it does not mark what I wanted it to (ie only 『Resist』, as a special gimmick. But I messed up at some point.). Inconsistent would be the kind way to describe this.
So I clearly won't mind revising all I've done - esp. when it's that bad.

Solutions I've thought of:
- using a consistent syntax/symbolism and struggle with text width. <- that up to now, or so it should've been
- colors. I only thought recently about this, for some silly reason.
- go full masochistic and implement brand-new icons...

We don't need to study this right now, but I could use a second brain and pair of eyes. Maybe there's a better, more simple solution that eluded me.
I don't need an answer rn, but it'll take time for me to find suitable replacements - nm implementing them. Such are my worries - I'll keep in mind your recommendations when I start hacking my way through them.

If I'm honest (and fearless), I'd redo every skill from scratch... Knowing myself, I totally will

I'm not sure I follow about SR_announce using colors? I don't particularly have a problem with it but it feels like you skipped a train of thought or something. Where do colors come in?
As for CommonEvents...

Wouldn't it be nice to have OK, CANCEL, Z, X, A... in a fancy color reserved to keys? We'd remove the need for a [marking] as well. This is easy to implement, but harder to remain consistent afterwards (I would know ). It could improve the simple battles as well, should I feel inspired.

Spoiler: T++ x CE

Mmm. I'd replace as much as I can from the T++ project, then edit the missing few by hand. I had no issue finding the ~800 \q\w\m\y, but T++ probably missed some, yes. I'll have a look in that /www/php/cache/, see if I have a stroke of genius (yeah, right...).
Most, if not all that comes from CE, maps, etc. go through the same few functions we've reviewed, used and tampered with. As you've seen. I don't see a viable solution on that side.
How about you test T++ on a single complicated CE, and then have a look at what's missing? I doubt it'll be much: we're probably worrying over nothing. <crossing fingers>

I'm using jisho.org a lot. Then I sometimes look into the etymology of a few thing Kanjis, hoping I'll remember them. I'm very familiar with JRPG terms, but I'll have at look at your recommendation. The word you're referring to, I TL'ed as 'Combo' to keep short, clear, compact (follow-up is the best match, but is too long... Or maybe not? I don't need to write 'follow-up attack'). That's open to debate anytime. As is anything I TLed. I usually have a logic behind my choices, but it's hardly rock-solid.

ULMF had a 1Mo limit per file. It's convenient to share a single file, but you could keep using the Gdrive? (in case of a mass-editing like I was suggesting). In other cases, we'll need to comb slowly through the files, so 1Mo will hardly matter.
I know there's Github but it's really not suitable for rxdata, as far as I know (which is to say: little).

There's not much I could use in the T++ cache. I can see some regexes being useful on the \dump, but that's about it?
On a side note, I believe SR gives priority to the files in \mod\Mod_Data. I haven't looked deeply into it. But that means we don't have to overwrite any file (provided you moved the former beforehand) and we can work/debug safely, whenever needed; provided we use that folder for now.
We still need the files to be in \data if we're to use RPGMXP editor itself, but that'll be great for testing purposes.

PS: if push comes to shove, I can fully convert a CE to script. Looking at you ☆絶頂（アクター）#32. That's tedious, but we always have this last resort measure. So don't feel shy and experiment all you like with T++.

PPS: heads up. 平原と丘と檻MOD_メインデータ_220806 is out and ready to rumble

 

[xRoguex]

They have upgraded all the patches now.
The new files are really few but they are mostly what they have done through minor patches until now

 

[Strange]

They have upgraded all the patches now.

The addendum is almost only Rejeo's gorgeous new graphics (w/o further spoilers). You'll need both scrpm_3018 + scrpm_3019; no doubt they'lll fix that very soon. With any luck, before I release what I mention below.

I'm almost done upgrading to scrpm_3015, files should be ready by tomorrow. Any and all "……！" in the scripts is now "!"; I think I'll make a backup and replace the rest of the eyesores first. No, not me, no regexp could manage. So dots, commas, etc. from any .rb file.

A simple thing came to mind: I would also want to wipe out every "they/their" - I've started on the few times I've reluctantly used the thing myself. Referring to the genderless substitute for "he/she his/her". Do you agree, @WitheredGryphon ? If you do, I'm aware the textmakers (like skilltext) will be harder to wade through. You don't have to worry about it, just use 'their' if it's convenient for you - I'll take care of the scripting, and/or alternate sentence, if you don't mind my doing so. I'm used to it.
You could use a specific marking ("THEIR"?) so neither of us forget any incriminated line. I'll try to keep in mind possible MC gender reversal, but feel free to dismiss the possibility altogether when it comes to the story, etc. Lore-wise, Laurent would always be a "he" anyhow.