Games Discussion Thread
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Stuffie
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Re: Games Discussion Thread
I chatted it up with a friend on Steam who pre-ordered "No Man's Sky" on Steam, here's the log (dark-grey letters are mine, highlight-grey are his):
The concept of exploring the completely unknown is very, VERY attracting to me, and thus I was also very interested in NMS as soon as it was released. Different planets with different flora and fauna? Sounds awesome to me! But with a randomly generated bigness like this, there's still quite some issues to be sorted out, which is why I didn't pre-order the game.
And now, I'm happy I didn't, because this appears to be a non-finished game sold at 60€. And for me, there's no arguing for that price and performance: You don't charge 60€ for a game like this. Not even if the future holds free DLCs, patches and upgrades. Because the player never knows what he is going to get in the very end.
Starbound is just fine, by the way. Cheaper and more enjoyable, although the storyline I played so far isn't the greatest either.
I chatted it up with a friend on Steam who pre-ordered "No Man's Sky" on Steam, here's the log (dark-grey letters are mine, highlight-grey are his):
The concept of exploring the completely unknown is very, VERY attracting to me, and thus I was also very interested in NMS as soon as it was released. Different planets with different flora and fauna? Sounds awesome to me! But with a randomly generated bigness like this, there's still quite some issues to be sorted out, which is why I didn't pre-order the game.
And now, I'm happy I didn't, because this appears to be a non-finished game sold at 60€. And for me, there's no arguing for that price and performance: You don't charge 60€ for a game like this. Not even if the future holds free DLCs, patches and upgrades. Because the player never knows what he is going to get in the very end.
Starbound is just fine, by the way. Cheaper and more enjoyable, although the storyline I played so far isn't the greatest either.
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Re: Games Discussion Thread
The problems with starbound were created by:
1. Chucklefish promised a playable beta and thus had to deliver one
2. The community
3. The community
TBH I wish they'd never given out the playable beta. I loved it, though could see the flaws. But the community just bitched and pissed and moaned (the community outside of the chucklefish forums, SA and reddit were just absolutely toxic) and now progression consists of running along the surface of planets looking for race settlements to scan objects and picking up any loot from crates. I didn't need to mine a SINGLE piece of durasteel.
That was what you used to do while hunting for tech chests, hoping to find something new inside. Now you've got 3 tech slots with 4 possible techs, diversity woo hoo!
Now I'm not saying that EVERYTHING I don't like about the game is the communities' fault. Chucklefish dropped the ball and made quite a few bad decisions along the way, but I loved a couple of the previous versions of the beta, even if they weren't finished or perfect and the community just couldn't stand that everything wasn't just handed to the player.
I do like starbound still but, why did they cater to the fucking worthless goddamn waste of life casuals?
The problems with starbound were created by:
1. Chucklefish promised a playable beta and thus had to deliver one
2. The community
3. The community
TBH I wish they'd never given out the playable beta. I loved it, though could see the flaws. But the community just bitched and pissed and moaned (the community outside of the chucklefish forums, SA and reddit were just absolutely toxic) and now progression consists of running along the surface of planets looking for race settlements to scan objects and picking up any loot from crates. I didn't need to mine a SINGLE piece of durasteel.
That was what you used to do while hunting for tech chests, hoping to find something new inside. Now you've got 3 tech slots with 4 possible techs, diversity woo hoo!
Now I'm not saying that EVERYTHING I don't like about the game is the communities' fault. Chucklefish dropped the ball and made quite a few bad decisions along the way, but I loved a couple of the previous versions of the beta, even if they weren't finished or perfect and the community just couldn't stand that everything wasn't just handed to the player.
I do like starbound still but, why did they cater to the fucking worthless goddamn waste of life casuals?
dragoon93041
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Re: Games Discussion Thread
I felt it just never managed to differentiate itself from Terraria or Minecraft.
I felt it just never managed to differentiate itself from Terraria or Minecraft.
lurker
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Re: Games Discussion Thread
As I said before, Starbound isn't nessisarily bad, just I've played it so damn long now thanks to the elongated beta period it's just not as easy to pick my attention with it anymore. And yeah, all that hype for a storyline for 1.0... and it''s 7 (technically 8, as the final boss is a planet/mission by itself) padded to hell by the RNG of it's own generation system. It's nice that there's so much to DO there, and it only grows with the huge, well-done mods from the people who stuck out the design process, especially Frakin' Universe, but the default game.. just ain't got a lot of meat, and in some ways feels like it's trying to be a slower-paced Terraria without the same substance.
Then again, when I first got Terraria the Dungeon was the toughest thing in the game and it only had 300 or so items, so who knows, if Chucklefish stick with it (and apparently they are, Nightly's featuring a batch of upcoming Novakid stuff) it may eventually get on the same level everyone compares it to.
As I said before, Starbound isn't nessisarily bad, just I've played it so damn long now thanks to the elongated beta period it's just not as easy to pick my attention with it anymore. And yeah, all that hype for a storyline for 1.0... and it''s 7 (technically 8, as the final boss is a planet/mission by itself) padded to hell by the RNG of it's own generation system. It's nice that there's so much to DO there, and it only grows with the huge, well-done mods from the people who stuck out the design process, especially Frakin' Universe, but the default game.. just ain't got a lot of meat, and in some ways feels like it's trying to be a slower-paced Terraria without the same substance.
Then again, when I first got Terraria the Dungeon was the toughest thing in the game and it only had 300 or so items, so who knows, if Chucklefish stick with it (and apparently they are, Nightly's featuring a batch of upcoming Novakid stuff) it may eventually get on the same level everyone compares it to.
Paladox
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Re: Games Discussion Thread
I know the feeling about Starbound. I've just played it too much. When they have a big update or two I might go back to it, especially if they ever add controller support (might need to just go with a Joy-to-Key type program?). I know the game is officially done now, but I just don't feel like going back to it yet. I played through one of the big updates where they had like 3 or 4 of the big storyline quests done. I'm just not feeling the need to play it though. It's too much like hard labor, especially considering that playing Starbound and King Arthur's Gold together gave me mouse (aka tennis) elbow.
So, yeah, they should give us some controller support, or at LEAST some bigger, better mining tools. Remember those drills back in the beta? You know.. the totally useless ones...
Something else that would help is automated mining (click once to start the matter manipulator, click again to stop it). Holding down that mouse button is a good way to destroy the tendens in your elbow, for those that don't know. Oh, and they don't grow back. Did you know that? You have to replace them with muscle growth.
I know the feeling about Starbound. I've just played it too much. When they have a big update or two I might go back to it, especially if they ever add controller support (might need to just go with a Joy-to-Key type program?). I know the game is officially done now, but I just don't feel like going back to it yet. I played through one of the big updates where they had like 3 or 4 of the big storyline quests done. I'm just not feeling the need to play it though. It's too much like hard labor, especially considering that playing Starbound and King Arthur's Gold together gave me mouse (aka tennis) elbow.
So, yeah, they should give us some controller support, or at LEAST some bigger, better mining tools. Remember those drills back in the beta? You know.. the totally useless ones...
Something else that would help is automated mining (click once to start the matter manipulator, click again to stop it). Holding down that mouse button is a good way to destroy the tendens in your elbow, for those that don't know. Oh, and they don't grow back. Did you know that? You have to replace them with muscle growth.
TrainerFan
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Re: Games Discussion Thread
No Man's Sky sounds pretty cool for exploration.
No Man's Sky sounds pretty cool for exploration.
Byzantine2014
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Re: Games Discussion Thread
Looks a bit too similar to Tales of Xillia, didn't really enjoy that unfortunately. Weirdly enough, liked the movies of the series, but didn't like the games...
stoper
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Re: Games Discussion Thread
I remember playing Spore years ago and each planet sure looked different, but they laked... soul?..
Really? I usually prefer having several hand-crafted areas, instead of this procedurally generated unlimited space they talked about.
I remember playing Spore years ago and each planet sure looked different, but they laked... soul?..
Paladox
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Re: Games Discussion Thread
Procedural generation is only really good if there's a lot of hand crafted content to go with it. If you have hundreds of hand crafted variations to go with it, then sure. If you have like 5 bland terrains that you whipped up in 10 seconds just so you could get it over with.. not so good.
Even with a few hand crafted variants it can be a big issue. In Starbound if you keep running across the same exact underground lab then it sucks all the fun out of it. If there's at least 20 variants though, then you've got yourself a winner. Nobody wants to see the same 2 or 3 labs again and again though. I know I don't, no matter how well they are done.
Diablo 2 and 3 have some of the most bland, uncreative random layouts imaginable. You can hardly tell the difference. There's like 3 sets of each area at most. Mostly just 2. It's super boring and gets old really fast. If Blizzard had taken the time to design 20 different dungeons for every single area in the game then I think the game would have been much better for it (and far more successful). Even better, imagine 20 different varieties of the big bosses. Imagine if there were 20 different forms of Diablo. You'd never know what to expect and it would be crazy fun.
Procedural generation is only really good if there's a lot of hand crafted content to go with it. If you have hundreds of hand crafted variations to go with it, then sure. If you have like 5 bland terrains that you whipped up in 10 seconds just so you could get it over with.. not so good.
Even with a few hand crafted variants it can be a big issue. In Starbound if you keep running across the same exact underground lab then it sucks all the fun out of it. If there's at least 20 variants though, then you've got yourself a winner. Nobody wants to see the same 2 or 3 labs again and again though. I know I don't, no matter how well they are done.
Diablo 2 and 3 have some of the most bland, uncreative random layouts imaginable. You can hardly tell the difference. There's like 3 sets of each area at most. Mostly just 2. It's super boring and gets old really fast. If Blizzard had taken the time to design 20 different dungeons for every single area in the game then I think the game would have been much better for it (and far more successful). Even better, imagine 20 different varieties of the big bosses. Imagine if there were 20 different forms of Diablo. You'd never know what to expect and it would be crazy fun.
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stoper
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Re: Games Discussion Thread
Like, when I explore some ruins in The Witcher 3 and find a small side cave, used by a convict to break out of prison years ago and there is a side quest related to it and whatnot. You need a person to make this, machines and algorithms just don't make that kind of stuff.
The thing is, even if all looks different and unique, it still feels empty and dull to me.
Like, when I explore some ruins in The Witcher 3 and find a small side cave, used by a convict to break out of prison years ago and there is a side quest related to it and whatnot. You need a person to make this, machines and algorithms just don't make that kind of stuff.
Paladox
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Re: Games Discussion Thread
The thing is, most designers don't really want to put that much effort into content that most players are only going to experience one time (and they will only experience one of those 20 variations). Mind you, each player would have a completely different experience if the whole game were set up this way, and the replay value would be phenomenal.
Imagine a Mega Man game where it has all the stages from previous Mega Man games, but you only get 8 each playthrough, and the 8 bosses are also completely random. Not to mention the enemies, powerups, etc.. It would be tons of fun but sadly won't ever happen.
The game's algorithms and whatnot could be used to keep track of what's already in the game, to prevent duplication.
Something like this could actually be done with RPG Maker. It would just take 20x the number of hours to make the same game, but again, the replay value would be phenomenal.
Imagine an RPG where you get a different intro every time you start a new game. How mind blowing would that be? xD
That's where the hand crafted content comes in. The scenario you describe would be one of 20 sets. Another version of the cave could have a different quest. Perhaps you find an old sword with a family engraving on it, and you can ask around and return the sword to its heirs. Another version of the cave be a monster's lair, and the monster happens to have a bounty on it.
The thing is, most designers don't really want to put that much effort into content that most players are only going to experience one time (and they will only experience one of those 20 variations). Mind you, each player would have a completely different experience if the whole game were set up this way, and the replay value would be phenomenal.
Imagine a Mega Man game where it has all the stages from previous Mega Man games, but you only get 8 each playthrough, and the 8 bosses are also completely random. Not to mention the enemies, powerups, etc.. It would be tons of fun but sadly won't ever happen.
The game's algorithms and whatnot could be used to keep track of what's already in the game, to prevent duplication.
Something like this could actually be done with RPG Maker. It would just take 20x the number of hours to make the same game, but again, the replay value would be phenomenal.
Imagine an RPG where you get a different intro every time you start a new game. How mind blowing would that be? xD
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stoper
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Re: Games Discussion Thread
No Man's Sky with it's "entire universe" would need THE entire universe working on custom content
This could work, but only on a small scale.
No Man's Sky with it's "entire universe" would need THE entire universe working on custom content
Paladox
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Re: Games Discussion Thread
Not to mention the fact that there is 90% garbage preventing you from seeing 10% of the content that you actually want to find, like mooshroom and red sand biomes in Minecraft.
Well I think of games like No Man's Sky, Minecraft, Diablo, etc.. as having lots of hollow content. If it's just randomly generated terrain, monsters, loot, then there might as well be nothing there because the gesture is "hollow" at best. It's like going outside and picking 10 different blades of grass. Sure they are all slightly different, but at first glance they are exactly the same so.. why bother?This could work, but only on a small scale.
No Man's Sky with it's "entire universe" would need THE entire universe working on custom content
Not to mention the fact that there is 90% garbage preventing you from seeing 10% of the content that you actually want to find, like mooshroom and red sand biomes in Minecraft.
dragoon93041
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Re: Games Discussion Thread
Playing Dicetiny (which my head always calls Dice Tiny) and... well... its got some good mechanics but it keeps tripping over itself. There are some rather severe bugs, especially when you deal damage.
It has an interesting mechanic where you can place minions on the board. Minions that don't belong to you attack you when you land on them. When you land on your own minion, you can buff it or cause it to force a player to stop on its space and attack it. Its a good system. The only problem is the hire system. When you land on a minion, you have a chance of being able to hire it. So if you just buffed a minion, you get screwed. I find it really obnoxious, especially with the cleric, who is all about buffing. You get a really good minion, only to have the other character hire him.
Playing Dicetiny (which my head always calls Dice Tiny) and... well... its got some good mechanics but it keeps tripping over itself. There are some rather severe bugs, especially when you deal damage.
It has an interesting mechanic where you can place minions on the board. Minions that don't belong to you attack you when you land on them. When you land on your own minion, you can buff it or cause it to force a player to stop on its space and attack it. Its a good system. The only problem is the hire system. When you land on a minion, you have a chance of being able to hire it. So if you just buffed a minion, you get screwed. I find it really obnoxious, especially with the cleric, who is all about buffing. You get a really good minion, only to have the other character hire him.
Paladox
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Re: Games Discussion Thread
Sometimes when I don't feel like playing anything I just go through the list and play the first one. No good? Add it to a list of crap games. Completed? Archive list. It's a rather effective way of going through your game library.
I know! It's cost effective though since you can afford to wait to play the newer games while you catch up on older titles. I'm still waiting on GTA 5 and Farcry Primal to hit that $20 (or less) price point.
Sometimes when I don't feel like playing anything I just go through the list and play the first one. No good? Add it to a list of crap games. Completed? Archive list. It's a rather effective way of going through your game library.