[Nutaku] Angelic Saga

[TheLurker]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

Welp. I sunk a 10er into the energy drinks bundles and had quite a few minis and regulars stockpiled (Hoarder). I can tell ya folks, 15 beyond gets retarded. L19 is 10stam for 6prog, L20 it's 10 for 4. Boss on 19 is (if she draws a somewhat decent hand) stupidly hard to beat.
She fields ~3k Antherets and plenty of 2.5-2.6k hitters. If she ever gets field dominance, or enough mana to summon 2 biggies in one round, youre fucked.

Well damn. Well, at least you have unlimited attempts at boss, if that helps.

 

[12TonWeight]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

Sure did. I needed 3 attempts to clear her. First one she Kicked my ass all over the field with 2 anterets in as many rounds and it all went to hell from there, second time I was swamped with (ultimately useless) trap cards and third was the charm.
Nice side effect is, that I collected 30 Dark Crystals. Those should last me a while.

 

[gullwing]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

We at the AS chat decided to have an experiment. This is the result. (all normal gacha)

You must be registered to see the links

(the miscount is actually the free daily draw)


Afterthought : don't hoard, just spend as soon as u have 2k to not get dissapointed once you unload your hoard and get jack shit.

P.S. did you know there's actually an Angelic Saga chat? this game is alot more fun with other people!

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Eab1990]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

It's over.

Spoiler

 

[JimmyBob100]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

Even then, right now, no amount of cash will get anyone any closer to getting those useful HR cards

Not me though, my $10 rolls have gotten me both limited SSRs and a few good SRs like Crow, Huan Lu, and Gloria

It's over.

Spoiler

.

 

[Eab1990]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

.

Flora is a special case, I'll admit, but she's still not the utility HRs I was referring to. Plus, she's limited anyway, so the number of people who actually have a Flora is probably low.

Besides, having Flora or any of my other SR/SSRs doesn't mean I'm safe against a Shalif or Reve or whatever else (even Banish is something I have to watch out for).

Which again, emphasizes how those cards shouldn't be paywalled or "luckwalled" if you want to even the playing field.

Maybe if those cards were sold via medals, like Invitation to Hell EX, it would bridge the gap a little.

 

[JimmyBob100]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

the vast majority of useful, staple HR and SR cards (like the ones the current phase 2 boss uses) are currently NOT paywalled

Plus, she's limited anyway, so the number of people who actually have a Flora is probably low.

------

Free players, with high levels and some luck, can still stand a fighting chance against paying players.

Besides, having Flora or any of my other SR/SSRs doesn't mean I'm safe against a Shalif or Reve or whatever else

------

I've said before that this game is not as P2W as you think

Which again, emphasizes how those cards shouldn't be paywalled

.

 

[Eab1990]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

Okay, so you're just being a retard at this point. Gotcha.

If you need me to spell out for you that my case is primarily luck and not P2W, then I don't know what to do with you.

 

[JimmyBob100]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

At this point I'm not sure if you even know what your own case is, since so far you've been arguing against yourself so effectively.

 

[Yatol]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

lol my luck is shit

 

[Eab1990]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

My point is that the vast majority of paywall cards aren't the universal utility cards that any deck could and should have, but are mostly just cards that snowball further (or they have niche effects and/or effects that don't synergize well with general decks, like Idol Nana's "draw another copy of her" skill).

For a game where snowballing is already overly powerful as it is, the tools needed to disrupt that momentum should be more readily available. I'm arguing that those cards SHOULDN'T be paywalled OR luckwalled.

In YGO terms, it's like paying your way to a Blue Eyes White Dragon when everyone already has something at Dark Magician tier, and only the lucky people have access to Dark Hole or Man-Eater Bug. That's idiotic balancing no matter how you look at it.

But again, it's not a question of free vs. paying, it's a question of lucky vs. unlucky. You nitpicking at my Flora or general $10 lucky rolls doesn't mean a damn thing. I can snowball better than free players, and I *might* be able to disrupt a snowballer (but as OP of a card she is, it's entirely possible for my Flora to still be overpowered by some well-placed Books of Awakening/Strength Saps, or even a Decree).

Great. That doesn't mean I'm any better at seizing or retaking board control any better than well-equipped and/or lucky free players. If you want balance, those utility cards need to be easier to get. That's what you were complaining about, no? That HRs are too hard to get.

 

[JimmyBob100]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

What you so far have failed to grasp from every person in this thread is that there is very much a paywall problem, because the N gacha simply will. not. roll. HRs or above. The paid gacha rate is still awful, but even 20% chance to get 'useful, staple' cards is higher than 0%.

Luck does not factor in when the base chance for free players is indistinguishable from zero. 'Lucky vs. unlucky' is solely a barrier between paying players because the free players aren't even allowed to participate.

There are no lucky free players. There are lucky paying players, unlucky paying players, and the rest. Being so significantly separated from the paying pack is very much P2W.

It's not nitpicking '$10 lucky rolls'. It's pointing out that without spending that $10, you would never have roll those cards, probably ever. And those, and cards like them, are the cards you need to successfully compete. That's P2W.

 

[Eab1990]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

What you so far have failed to grasp from every person in this thread is that there is very much a paywall problem, because the N gacha simply will. not. roll. HRs or above. The paid gacha rate is still awful, but even 20% chance to get 'useful, staple' cards is higher than 0%.

Luck does not factor in when the base chance for free players is indistinguishable from zero. 'Lucky vs. unlucky' is solely a barrier between paying players because the free players aren't even allowed to participate.

There are no lucky free players. There are lucky paying players, unlucky paying players, and the rest. Being so significantly separated from the paying pack is very much P2W.

Ah, so that's it. You don't even know how premium gacha works.

What YOU have failed to get is that just because you can get HRs in premium gacha at a better rate, does not mean that you will get the HRs I'm referring to. If it's not in the card list, it's not obtainable from that premium gacha. Guess which cards haven't been available yet? That's right, Shalif, Reve, and the magic/trap cards that the current phase 2 boss uses.

Normal gacha is different in that every card (sans limited cards) are available. It's why people have pulled copies of story mission bosses. Or fucking Cost Shackles and Millenarian Power, the former of which I haven't even seen yet (except maybe AI), and the latter of which I have literally only seen once, and it wasn't from a P2W player either. The fact that those cards can fall in the hands of free players means your last statement falls completely flat.

So what does this all mean? The problem isn't P2W, but rates. If HR rates increase in either normal or premium gacha, then free players can stand a better chance by getting those coveted utility HR cards.

 

[JimmyBob100]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

Ah, so that's it. You don't even know how premium gacha works.

What YOU have failed to get is that just because you can get HRs in premium gacha at a better rate, does not mean that you will get the HRs I'm referring to. If it's not in the card list, it's not obtainable from that premium gacha. Guess which cards haven't been available yet? That's right, Shalif, Reve, and the magic/trap cards that the current phase 2 boss uses.

Normal gacha is different in that every card (sans limited cards) are available. It's why people have pulled copies of story mission bosses. Or fucking Cost Shackles and Millenarian Power, the former of which I haven't even seen yet (except maybe AI), and the latter of which I have literally only seen once, and it wasn't from a P2W player either. The fact that those cards can fall in the hands of free players means your last statement falls completely flat.

So what does this all mean? The problem isn't P2W, but rates. If HR rates increase in either normal or premium gacha, then free players can stand a better chance by getting those coveted utility HR cards.

None of this is true. You can always roll cards from premium that are not listed in the card list. The only truly limited cards are the ones exclusively in the limited gachas (like the onsen cards, or Flora).

Sharif, Reve, Cost Shackles, Millenarian Power, and the storyline bosses are all available from premium tickets. I know this because I have rolled some of them.

 

[Eab1990]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

None of this is true. You can always roll cards from premium that are not listed in the card list. The only truly limited cards are the ones exclusively in the limited gachas (like the onsen cards, or Flora).

Sharif, Reve, Cost Shackles, Millenarian Power, and the storyline bosses are all available from premium tickets. I know this because I have rolled some of them.

Show me an example of a premium pull that was not included in the attached card list, because that's never happened to me in the 150+ rolls I did (thanks to all the premium ticket/roll glitches).

I'm calling bullshit on that last statement. Everyone I've asked who's pulled a storyline boss said they got it from normal gacha, not premium (myself included if we're including story bosses not implemented yet, namely Little Bunny Fiona). There's never been a storyline boss included in the premium card lists thus far.

I have no reason to believe that Shalif/Reve/Cost Shackles/Millenarian Power are any different. If that were the case, I should be seeing them a lot more than I'm seeing SRs like Miyabi and Solene (I swear every other player has one or the other). But no, they're rare as fuck because they're not in the premium card lists.

 

[JimmyBob100]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

Cards are pretty obviously added over time, so its perfectly normal for some cards to be rarer than others, in practice, due to being added later. Ogre and Solene were available in the first gacha, Reve and Sharif were added in later gachas.

I rolled Millenarian Power from a ticket in the first premium gacha. Right now your argument is boiling down to saying, "I don't believe you, you're lying, you must be wrong and I must be right."

 

[Eab1990]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

I'm looking at past gacha lists now, and I see that various cards that used to be in those pools are now removed (they're down to 15 pages instead of 20, so ~20 cards must have been removed from the pool).

And surprise surprise, it's mostly HRs that are removed from the pool. That explains why the rates for past gachas are lower than when they first arrive.

I know that Miyabi and Alice were in the second premium gacha rotation, because that was when the first premium ticket glitch happened, and that's when I pulled them. Both of them are no longer in that pool, and Alice in particular is nowhere in sight in any card list now, so I can only imagine that she's no longer obtainable from any premium gacha right now.

Likewise, perhaps Millenarian Power and other HR cards were available in the first gacha and I just overlooked them, and now they're gone from the past gacha.

However, that still doesn't support your point of "any card can be pulled from premium gacha". The fact that story bosses have only been found from normal gacha still supports the idea that premium gacha is only limited to their respective card lists. I doubt anybody is pulling any Shalifs from premium now either.

 

[JimmyBob100]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

I'm looking at past gacha lists now, and I see that various cards that used to be in those pools are now removed (they're down to 15 pages instead of 20, so ~20 cards must have been removed from the pool).

And surprise surprise, it's mostly HRs that are removed from the pool. That explains why the rates for past gachas are lower than when they first arrive.

I know that Miyabi and Alice were in the second premium gacha rotation, because that was when the first premium ticket glitch happened, and that's when I pulled them. Both of them are no longer in that pool, and Alice in particular is nowhere in sight in any card list now, so I can only imagine that she's no longer obtainable from any premium gacha right now.

Likewise, perhaps Millenarian Power and other HR cards were available in the first gacha and I just overlooked them, and now they're gone from the past gacha.

However, that still doesn't support your point of "any card can be pulled from premium gacha". The fact that story bosses have only been found from normal gacha still supports the idea that premium gacha is only limited to their respective card lists. I doubt anybody is pulling any Shalifs from premium now either.

Millenarian Power was not on the in-game gacha list when I rolled it, either.

You must be registered to see the links

Miyabi is currently listed in the first and current premium lists, though not the second (when you said you rolled her).

 

[Eab1990]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

Millenarian Power was not on the in-game gacha list when I rolled it, either.

You must be registered to see the links

Miyabi is currently listed in the first and current premium lists, though not the second (when you said you rolled her).

Then either yours is some strange anomaly where the card lists weren't fully listing every choice, or you're misremembering and you pulled the cards from normal gacha. I'm not convinced that unlisted cards are so easily pulled from premium. And even if they are, my point still stands: the HR rate, especially for those specific cards, needs to be increased.

I'm fairly certain both Miyabi and definitely Alice (since it was a card I hadn't seen or heard of yet) were in the second premium gacha list, but now they're gone, so it goes.

A definitive way to prove me wrong (or at least that there might be an extremely small chance to get something outside of the card lists) would be for someone to roll premium and to again pull something that's never been in the card lists, like story bosses. Since I already rolled 80-something times and only got 20 new cards (all of which were in the card list), I'm not inclined to believe otherwise.

These are all the new cards I pulled from this rotation (before the admin rolled me back, anyway). All of them are in the current card list, I believe.

Spoiler

 

[dartred]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

can you both stop arguing and derailing the thread please. if it was constructive criticism i'd understand, but this is just trying to one up each other.