[Nutaku] Angelic Saga

[Xovian]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

To your point about not beating your opponents' monsters but rather delaying them, I'm not sure I understand. There's not alternate win condition here, and AFAIK, that would've been the main reason to run a stall tactic. Stalling allows your opponent to build up an army, and that can overwhelm you.

Card advantage in this game is about field control, not the cards in your hand.
If an opponent has some super 3k monster out there, it's useless if it can't actually attack. It also takes up a slot where the opponent can't place another useable unit into play.
That limited 5 unit field can be a bane if you aren't careful.

Shinobi Summons has won me games simply because i delayed their big creature as it was more powerful than what i had on the field. Forcefiled of Light is even better (delays action for 3 turns)
Cards like Blaze Master Flamboise and Sniper Ekera are worth their weight in gold, because they ignore blockers. (Ekera is also very punishing to those that have really big units, half their atk as straight up hp damage)

Other things that make a difference are cards that ignore damage like Mariner Ripple. Ignores any damage from opponents with 1500 or less ATK. Fire Dragon Primrose also has such an ability (check tournament rewards).

There's a lot of things in the game we have yet to see, and only more cards will be coming out. So the possibilities are only going to grow. Simply put, just because you don't see ways to get around specific problems or don't have the cards that allow it (most of us don't) it doesn't mean they aren't there, or that they aren't coming.

Read the cards in the gatcha as they scroll by, check the free gatcha too, some of those cards are ridiculous. So it's not a matter of only spenders getting good cards, its just a matter of luck, which most TCG's are fond of, so this one is no different in that regard.

Edit:

My biggest issue with the game right now is that you can only exchange one card for mana per turn, which limits the flow too strictly. If you could discard multiple cards in one turn, you could make for higher-risk/reward games (and simultaneously make Emily/Fountain of the Truthful/other draw power cards even more valuable). It'd make less matches devolve into snowballing or being plain hopeless, and people could have a chance at dealing with armies of cards/traps.

I disagree with this as it supports poor deck building than. People would only make decks with all level 9 or above than. Sure you could have the ex invitation to hell, but you can only have three of those.
The point of the limited mana function is so people make decks with a wide range of mana cost units, and not just make a go big or go home deck.

@Daverost,
All that would be required is you have the room to get the deck, which happens quickly due to leveling and mission completions. I've not once run out of room, and as i stated earlier, i only bought one boost which was 5 additional slots.
If you have 50 free slot, it becomes available. Granted how they sell them would be the bigger factor. Depending on implementation, would determine if people would even try to get them or not, so that remains to be seen how that would be handled.

 

[Eab1990]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

I disagree with this as it supports poor deck building than. People would only make decks with all level 9 or above than. Sure you could have the ex invitation to hell, but you can only have three of those.
The point of the limited mana function is so people make decks with a wide range of mana cost units, and not just make a go big or go home deck.

As it is right now though, the 5-9 cost cards have too much control, IMO. We have early-game hard-hitters like Pumpkin Girl Marsha, or Hitwoman Natalie, a unit that ignores summoning sickness, or Yuzuki with her innate Strength Sap, etc.

Whoever gets those units out first can pretty safely snowball on the way to get their 10+ cost cards out.

If we can't tweak the mana system, the lower-cost cards need more purpose than just being mana/throwaway fodder. And Emily.

 

[Xovian]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

If we can't tweak the mana system, the lower-cost cards need more purpose than just being mana/throwaway fodder. And Emily.

If that's all you use low level units for...you're doing it wrong.

They do server a purpose out side of just mana:
- Early damage. It's desired. Games can be lost and won over a measly 300 damage.

- Blocking, a blocked creature does not let damage through no matter how powerful the attacking creature's ATK is. I can chump block a 4k ATK unit with my level 2 provided that she is set as DEFENSE and not OFFENSE.

- Buffing via trap or spell can be most entertaining and can turn the tide in some battles, especially if they are set DEF (see above).

-The aforementioned mana need, however this is not just a "low level" thing, sacing units is as much part of the strategy as anything else. Do you sac the level 7 who returns level 6's to opponents hand for 5 mana cost, or do you sac the level 2 that draws you two cards? Okay, what if the opponent has no 6 and below? Do you still sac the level 2? I don't.

TL;DR-
To say low level units have no purpose outside of mana, is under selling them, and you are missing some of their strategic advantages.

 

[Rawr1125]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

If that's all you use low level units for...you're doing it wrong.

They do server a purpose out side of just mana:
- Early damage. It's desired. Games can be lost and won over a measly 300 damage.

- Blocking, a blocked creature does not let damage through no matter how powerful the attacking creature's ATK is. I can chump block a 4k ATK unit with my level 2 provided that she is set as DEFENSE and not OFFENSE.

- Buffing via trap or spell can be most entertaining and can turn the tide in some battles, especially if they are set DEF (see above).

-The aforementioned mana need, however this is not just a "low level" thing, sacing units is as much part of the strategy as anything else. Do you sac the level 7 who returns level 6's to opponents hand for 5 mana cost, or do you sac the level 2 that draws you two cards? Okay, what if the opponent has no 6 and below? Do you still sac the level 2? I don't.

TL;DR-
To say low level units have no purpose outside of mana, is under selling them, and you are missing some of their strategic advantages.

What do you do when the opponent identifies your 2 cost card then decrees it to hit it with their 3k though?

 

[Xovian]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

What do you do when the opponent identifies your 2 cost card then decrees it to hit it with their 3k though?

Then they wasted resources to do so.
2 cost vs 6, I call that a bargain don't you?

It could cost you the late game, but at that point there are going to be other factors, not to mention the RNG of them drawing a decree when they would need it.

 

[Eab1990]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

If that's all you use low level units for...you're doing it wrong.

They do server a purpose out side of just mana:
- Early damage. It's desired. Games can be lost and won over a measly 300 damage.

- Blocking, a blocked creature does not let damage through no matter how powerful the attacking creature's ATK is. I can chump block a 4k ATK unit with my level 2 provided that she is set as DEFENSE and not OFFENSE.

- Buffing via trap or spell can be most entertaining and can turn the tide in some battles, especially if they are set DEF (see above).

-The aforementioned mana need, however this is not just a "low level" thing, sacing units is as much part of the strategy as anything else. Do you sac the level 7 who returns level 6's to opponents hand for 5 mana cost, or do you sac the level 2 that draws you two cards? Okay, what if the opponent has no 6 and below? Do you still sac the level 2? I don't.

TL;DR-
To say low level units have no purpose outside of mana, is under selling them, and you are missing some of their strategic advantages.

It may just be my deck composition, but the odds of you getting enough 2 and 3-cost cards for you long enough to hold out against a possibly rising army of 5+ cost cards is slim. Traps aren't cheap for you to rely on them in early game either (as they should be). Except Never Give Up, for some reason. Why that's a 3-cost is beyond me, since it's not an early game card at all.

2-cost cards max at 500 atk/def, so they are not ideal for using spells/traps on, even in early game. 3-cost cards at ~800 and 4-cost cards at ~1000 are debatable. But a Pumpkin Girl or a 4-cost with the right element can still decimate them, and you'd be one defender AND one trap card in the hole.

I feel like the rest of your post assumes your opponent is dilly-dallying and not mounting a rising offense against you while you keep throwing away mana on cheap cards to stall. By the time you get your 10+ cost cards out, you'll likely be dealing with several 1k+ monsters and traps. By which point, you'd also need a Never Give Up and/or several traps to even hope to hold out, but your opponent would have the upper hand and far more options.

 

[Emerald_Gladiator]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

@Eab: Eh, sort of. At least Fake Trap actually PROTECTS your traps. Fizzle literally does nothing...as in, if they were to target one of your more valuable traps, Fizzle would do nothing.

@Xovian: Yes, I've aware of that and it's definitely something I struggle with, because many times, I've got 5-6 cards in my hand which are completely unplayable (or just wouldn't be helpful if I used them), whereas in YGO, I'd be completely fine with a full hand and no field presence. I've never played a Fabled deck (YGO), so I suppose it'd be like that. I do get crowded fields, but it's never been an issue for me, because in that case, I really just ram my weaker monsters into stronger ones. As you can see, I've never had a problem with LP either--I've never gone under 3000, so maybe it's the AI or I don't worry about either problem.

True, I could see where both would be helpful--I've got SS and for some reason, I've never actually used it (it's just that I get it early game and find it gets dumped for mana fodder). Forcefield of Light...that's obviously SORL from YGO and it's one of my most desired cards because of how essential timing, attacking, and field advantage are. Yeah, so I do get where delaying could be useful. But I was thinking you meant delaying in terms of monsters (defensive cards). Framboise...I've never used her for burn; the burn amount is too small to utilize her simply for that, when I can use her attack instead. As for the sniper, I don't have her (I'm F2P, and I'm as lucky in this game as I am in Aigis).

The cards that ignore damage...I don't have either but I remember looking at the Wiki and immediately wanting them. Due to the nature of auto-traps and the lack of distinct card destruction, they could be absolutely invincible if you can plan your monsters' attacks properly. Yeah, it looks like the best cards are going to cost some money, or luck. That I do agree with, as is the case with all TCGs. At the very least, you have the option to grind and level your cards for free, which is the advantage of having a virtual card system.

@Eab: (Responding to your most recent comment). I do agree and disagree with you. I'm thinking that you're right in that whoever gets the middle-high range cards out first has the bigger advantage. As with the point I was making before, you could easily go 1-1s forever and use your beefy monsters to steamroll your opponent once you get to that plateau.

I don't agree that smaller cards are useless, even late game, however. Yeah, I find I dump them quickly then. But if you're losing and your opponent only has one giant monster or something, you can swarm your opponent with cards to gang on your opponent the next time, or as Xovian said, buff them crap out of them. This is where monsters' stat-buff effects become far more useful. And obviously, early game drops are fine because you can use them to gang-attack stuff while you drop bigger monsters, or lure out traps.

IMO Emily has a fairly good card design; she's not a cantrip or a cycle card because she actually costs something (mana and a turn to use), and you need to carefully weigh whether you want to use her for attack/field presence, or card advantage. Personally, I use her as bait to draw out Weaknesses or stronger traps, as long as the opponent has no monsters, and then use her effect the turn later. She's one of the main reasons I chose a water deck first (I was a blue/control player in MtG).

While I'd personally love that sort of mechanic (looser restrictions on mana control), I still think it'd be overabused and allow for some ridiculous decks that focus on dropping invincible cards (e.g. the "you can't hit me if you're 1500 or less") on turn 1. MtG and YGO both have similar restrictions--MtG has the "one land per turn" mech, and YGO requires tributes or specific combinations of cards to drop early bombs.

 

[Xovian]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

Either you're being coy, or I'm wasting my time.
Does anyone just play a level 2 and stop outside of the 1st two turns? No, so why the hell would that happening late game? It doesn't. You're not dilly-dalling either, you're holding the line till you can get something bigger out.

Think what you want, I'm done here.

Framboise...I've never used her for burn; the burn amount is too small to utilize her simply for that.

I've won because of her ability due to previous damage and the opponent managed to turn the tide because of 2 large units. Used just once can be a game changer.
When an opponent gets low and is starting to out "stat" your units, those type of abilities are very powerful. If you got enemies you can just attack with, sure but what about traps and such.
Not always the best course depending on opponents LP.

Obviously it's an in game decision on which to use as situations change.

 

[Eab1990]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

Well, the way I see it, if I *know* a card, monster or trap, is cheap, I can better prioritize myself by NOT attacking it. Because if I can tell if my opponent is stalling or plans to suicide-bomb my stronger monsters, I can prepare in advance. Remember that having several low-cost cards is a double-edged sword: by placing too many, it also gives my opponent less room to set up higher-cost cards as well.

Is my opponent putting up traps to bait me? Okay, I'll just put up several low/mid-cost cards to disarm them next turn.

Am I'm outnumbered? Okay, I'll focus on spending mana on traps to make sure my monster comes out unscathed.

But all that goes out the window with mid-cost cards. Does that defender have 1k+ defense? Does she have an effect that gives her an elemental advantage? Is it a Pumpkin Girl, does my opponent have 5 leftover mana, is my monster screwed if it gets forced into defense mode? And so on.

If those low-cost cards had effects worth worrying about, then I'd have to think twice about those as well. But they don't, so my strategies are simple. And that's not right.

Side note: Because the mana system is so restrictive right now, it's also ridiculously easy to COUNT mana. Example, if it's turn 3, and I went first, that means my opponent has five mana. He just put down two cards, so one must be a 2-cost card and one must be a 3-cost card. The only trap that costs that cheap that's worth worrying about is Weaken, so I ensure that my next battle has a margin of +300 attack. And so on.

 

[Xovian]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

Side note: Because the mana system is so restrictive right now, it's also ridiculously easy to COUNT mana. Example, if it's turn 3, and I went first, that means my opponent has five mana. He just put down two cards, so one must be a 2-cost card and one must be a 3-cost card. The only trap that costs that cheap that's worth worrying about is Weaken, so I ensure that my next battle has a margin of +300 attack. And so on.

Fizzle has a cost of 0. Thus the player could have put down a 5 cost unit.
Don't get me wrong, you have a margin of error, you know Invitation to Hell isn't being played any earlier then turn 4 for the second starting player. The gap does widen as the game goes on though, another reason cards that are set def can be more useful as it messes up the mana count for the opponent. YMMV though.

 

[Eab1990]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

Fizzle has a cost of 0. Thus the player could have put down a 5 cost unit.
Don't get me wrong, you have a margin of error, you know Invitation to Hell isn't being played any earlier then turn 4 for the second starting player. The gap does widen as the game goes on though, another reason cards that are set def can be more useful as it messes up the mana count for the opponent. YMMV though.

Fair point. Though I'm banking on the fact that Fizzle isn't a starter card and thus, people don't have a lot of Fizzles to throw around, therefore making the odds of someone starting with that card that early into a match to throw me off highly unlikely.

 

[Xovian]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

Fair point. Though I'm banking on the fact that Fizzle isn't a starter card and thus, people don't have a lot of Fizzles to throw around, therefore making the odds of someone starting with that card that early into a match to throw me off highly unlikely.

I got it in normal gotcha...was like WTF is this. Thought it meant damage was canceled for both sides (i mean that would be nothing happens right?) Yea, not so much.

 

[Eab1990]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

I feel like starter decks could use more variety in spell/trap cards... Always expecting an Invitation to Hell or Dodge every other trap card gets kinda old.

 

[ragnhildyr]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

@Freeko: Eh, I've never really found burn to be viable in any TCG.

i'm guessing you've never played MTG ?

 

[Emerald_Gladiator]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

Don't have a Fizzle and didn't know it was 0 cost (assumed it'd be), so I guess I don't have experience enough to say much about it. I don't think it'd phase me (I'd be like "wtf is this?", and that'd be about it). I do agree that the game needs more variety in spell/trap area, but I expect that to change with time. Also, the girls are the main selling factor for now, and most TCGs have those flagship monster cards vs. spell/trap, so yeah.

Either you're being coy, or I'm wasting my time.
Does anyone just play a level 2 and stop outside of the 1st two turns? No, so why the hell would that happening late game? It doesn't. You're not dilly-dalling either, you're holding the line till you can get something bigger out.

Think what you want, I'm done here.


I've won because of her ability due to previous damage and the opponent managed to turn the tide because of 2 large units. Used just once can be a game changer.
When an opponent gets low and is starting to out "stat" your units, those type of abilities are very powerful. If you got enemies you can just attack with, sure but what about traps and such.
Not always the best course depending on opponents LP.

Obviously it's an in game decision on which to use as situations change.

Eh, you can be dismissive all you want, but some people stop playing lvl 2's after the first few turns (if that's your point) and simply use them for mana fodder while focusing on the bigger monsters. Not saying that's the right choice at any given time, since you'd want to eke out as much mana spending as possible (in many situations, having one 4 cost and one 2 cost monster on the field could be more beneficial than a 6 cost monster). Still, I could definitely understand why people would eschew that sort of mentality. Again, you're correct; it's obviously foolish to ignore your options like that, but it's the way many think, especially since the beefier/rarer monsters are so appealing to level and throw out.

As for your second comment, I could see where that'd make sense. It's just that I feel those moments would be few and far between...I think if the burn were about 200-300 points more (I think Demon Novice Rosemary would be a better benchmark), I'd be more inclined to use it. And I've never been in such a situation where my game depends on 400-800 points of damage, so I guess that's why my mindset is the way it is.

@Eab: You actually make a great point here--you can count mana just like you'd count cards. It's good that the game hides your opponent's mana, and you have the option NOT to burn cards for mana (best used late game when you've got excess mana or fewer cards). Still though, I definitely get that, with the limited pools of spell/traps, you can sort of tell what an opponent's spell/trap is (if you know the cost of the cards and have been checking the turns for expected mana totals), especially if they throw down a monster to go along with it. And thus you can play around traps sometimes. I'd say having rare/costly spells or monsters who can affect your mana production speed would be a good addition to vary the game, in that regard.

As far as low-cost monsters not having effects, yeah I do agree too. I think Emily would be the best (along with a few high-stat lvl 2-3 cards), but she's more a utility card. I would hope that AS would release low-leveled cards with decent effects, just as other TCGs do. For now, I drop my lvl 2-3s and just expect them to be throwaway chump attackers or trap bait, rather than effective tech cards. Dunno if that's "dillydallying" or holding the line, but it's what I do with the available low-level cards I have/in AS right now.

 

[Xovian]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

@Emerald_Gladiator,
You are responding to the first part of my previous post and it wasn't aimed at you, we posted at the same time. My response to you follows your quote.

Simply put, which you got my point, don't close the doors on low levels just because they are low cost. There's a time and place for any of em, just depends on whats going on at the time. If people get that, than it's all good.

/cheers

 

[Mangomon]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

For everyone caught up with the story quests. How have you been spending your Stamina?

Torn between the last stage for max exp gain and other stages/dailies for upgrade materials.

 

[ragnhildyr]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

For everyone caught up with the story quests. How have you been spending your Stamina?

Torn between the last stage for max exp gain and other stages/dailies for upgrade materials.

i've been doing last story missions for stones/money.

 

[ShinigamiRikko]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

I stopped doing story quest after I got 4 bosses down and just farmed Stage 1-1 since I have a Dark Deck it is pretty easy to upgrade my cards to +1 rarity and they level up at the same time due to the Tradeswoman Nora drop.

 

[Eab1990]

Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga

@Eab: You actually make a great point here--you can count mana just like you'd count cards. It's good that the game hides your opponent's mana, and you have the option NOT to burn cards for mana (best used late game when you've got excess mana or fewer cards). Still though, I definitely get that, with the limited pools of spell/traps, you can sort of tell what an opponent's spell/trap is (if you know the cost of the cards and have been checking the turns for expected mana totals), especially if they throw down a monster to go along with it. And thus you can play around traps sometimes. I'd say having rare/costly spells or monsters who can affect your mana production speed would be a good addition to vary the game, in that regard.

As far as low-cost monsters not having effects, yeah I do agree too. I think Emily would be the best (along with a few high-stat lvl 2-3 cards), but she's more a utility card. I would hope that AS would release low-leveled cards with decent effects, just as other TCGs do. For now, I drop my lvl 2-3s and just expect them to be throwaway chump attackers or trap bait, rather than effective tech cards. Dunno if that's "dillydallying" or holding the line, but it's what I do with the available low-level cards I have/in AS right now.

Part of the problem is that things that you'd expect to be commonplace in card games, as a staple/starter card... aren't, in this game. Like the equivalent of Remove Trap or Monster Reborn (though Monster Reborn in this game is reviving a RANDOM monster, because apparently it's too difficult to bring up a prompt to pick which monster you want, or even just the strongest monster in your graveyard). Really feels like it limits the playing field. Those kinds of cards should be options for everyone, not just lucky people or cashers.

Same with effect monsters. The one unit that ignores summoning sickness (that people are most likely to have)? Not an early-game unit that would make them more valuable, but a mid-game 8-cost unit that would help someone to snowball further. The various cards that can remove threats ala Man-Eater Bug or Black Hole are HR or rarer (slightly mitigated by the fact that Ryumei was freely given to all current starting players).

Instead, everyone has to rely on Invitation to Hell, which indirectly places a high value on characters that have more than 2k attack. And other starter cards include niche ones like the equivalent of Just Desserts or Sword and Shield.

For everyone caught up with the story quests. How have you been spending your Stamina?

Torn between the last stage for max exp gain and other stages/dailies for upgrade materials.

I'm still finishing up quest 5, because I've been stubbornly refusing to move on until I get all item drops from a stage. And some of the drop rates are brutally low, not helped by the fact that you're not even guaranteed a drop every step.

Yes, I'm aware that there are no completion bonuses or anything. Bad OCD habit inherited from LoV/Aigis/Pero, I guess.

At any rate, I've been chugging mini energy drinks in the meantime to help me pick up the slack, so I'm almost level 80 right now. I also ran each daily at least once, and got a fair amount of witch's love brew/philosopher's stones.

Once I clear quest 6, I'll likely backtrack to the earlier quests to get fodder.

One thing I don't like about these story quests is the stamina cost distribution. The dark and light stages cost the least amount of stamina to run, while my poor wood deck has to wait until quest 3 to farm wood upgrade orbs, or quest 5 for wood hybrid farming spots.