Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

[Mangomon]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

@Altrius

Those three objective have been my rough goal. My inner completionist won't let me ignore an event unit completely, but I've accepted I'm no where near ready to max any of them I'd get.

Sidenote: Not sure how many time I've run the 20:1 missions but I'm at 44 crystals, 30ish bouquets, and 10 copies of Palas. I think I'll be set for mages for the time being, might even feed a few to her to get a CR or two.

 

[crow_mw]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

i cant chose between paula and noel pretty much identical on atk but hp and def is just so big

AW Noel gives you a 10% increase in gold gained. You almost always want her on your team. Therefore, might as well level her, so she is not wasting slots. You would than only take Paula when you need a second mage/bishop or when you hit an obstacle that can't be tackled with Noel. Either way, for me this choice is clear - Noel for increased gold rewards.

Edit: Also, where does Palas rate against Val or Barbasol(Pre-AW)

Pales is almost always superior to Vallery, as she has attack up as skill, instead of larger AoE. Barb has better base stats (roughly 50 more attack), but he also comes with increased AoE as skill, allowing Pales to overcome him in attack during skill duration. You should also be able to reduce her cost more easily. All in all, Pales is very solid, when compared to those two.

. But woe is me, I thought she'd use an archer for her CC and it turns out she needs another silver vampire hunter. Is there an easy way to get one other than the trading post? I actually have over a 100k gold now for some reason, should I grab one to CC her? Would it be worth it?

Same as Ether, I would rather just wait for her to appear as regular drop or pop from base/SP gatcha. If you feel you don't need 100k gold, go ahead and buy her (she is considered to be among the strongest silver units), but it would really surprise me, if you can't find better use fot that gold.

 

[Petite Soeur]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

I'm not a fan of rogues, too random

Just so you don't make the same mistake I did by neglecting raising at least one rogue into an assassin. The main benefit of evasion-type units is that they're the second best option you have against most paralysis inflicting monsters (the best being units with 100% evasion, or status ailment immunity as their AW Ability, i.e. Thetis, Roana, Erenia, and Moldevort).

For a lesser vampire, it takes 6 blows for them to paralyse a unit, which immediately cancels that unit's skill (excluding Prince), lowers their defence by 1/2, and makes them unable to do anything for around 10 seconds. 50% evasion means that it's very, very unlikely a rogue will receive all 6 blows consecutively (1.5%~ of it happening), and their cheap-deployment cost and high dps makes them ideal for ganking vampires so that they don't cause problems for your tanks and duelists who have much scarier threats to deal with like werewolves.

As for Cypria, she's a high dps unit with a low deployment cost that's stronger than the black-tier rogue Berna who is more like a tank (until you skill AW her).

CC70 Platinum Assassin Cypria (12-9):
(394+120)*1.19*1.2*30/24=917 dps
(394+120)*1.19*1.7*30/24=1299 dps

CC60 Gold Unicorn Knight Carrie (17-14):
431*1.19*1.3*30/32=625 dps
431*1.19*1.8*30/32=865 dps

Cypria gets an ability that gives her a 15% chance of dealing true damage per attack, making it so she's quite capable of handling high defence trash like paralysis-inflicting scorpions along with her Master Assassin 1% and Assassination II 10% instant-death kills better than someone like an AW Brynhildr Thetis, who—despite being immune to their stings—would take forever to defeat one with her physical attack. With her skill Cypria has 25 attacks with her high damage multiplier buffered by the 15% chance to deal her full 1.2k+ damage or instantly kill it. 25 attacks means she has a 92% chance of the latter happening at least once against a 1x enemy, and 98% against a 1.5x enemy before her skill expires.

The only negative thing I can say about Cypria is that she has to compete against Betty who is another dps rogue that also has Gold Get (must-have ability) and Kyuteri who increases affection drops (must-have ability if you want to max out affection for everyone in the long run). These two are units nearly everyone will want to want to raise and awaken early in their career (a Gold Get ability unit is one of the first you want to AW). Then there's the possibility that they'll revive an event for Ada who is a very cheap-to-deploy tank duelist (farm event unit with HP/DF/AT multiplier skill and high HP).

 

[exkale]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

It looks like I have no right to complain about Platinum Armor drops during a 1.5x drop rate event anymore. 8 platinum armors after spending 4 SC is pretty nice. That is much better than the time where I spent 4 SC and got 2 platinum armors.

 

[Mangomon]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

@Petite Soeur

I see, I'll make sure not to neglect leveling Cypria. Thankfully I've already gotten a Kyuteri, hopefully Betty isn't too far behind.

Few more unit questions:
Out of Val, Palas, Barb, and Marius which should I run as my main magic AoE? Leaning towards Palas and Marius.

Any advice about Gina? Getting the vibe she's a situational rather than mainstay unit.

Thanks for all the advice so far everyone.

 

[crow_mw]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

@Petite Soeur

I see, I'll make sure not to neglect leveling Cypria. Thankfully I've already gotten a Kyuteri, hopefully Betty isn't too far behind.

One more thing to add about rogues - while also being quite random, assassination is a very good way for low level players to get past some annoying stuff, like fat mummies.

Few more unit questions:
Out of Val, Palas, Barb, and Marius which should I run as my main magic AoE? Leaning towards Palas and Marius.

Already shared my thoughts about mages above. Marius, being a premium unit, obviously has higher base stats than the rest. Note, that on skill, Pales will still have higher attack than non-AWed Marius.

Any advice about Gina? Getting the vibe she's a situational rather than mainstay unit.

People will swear by monks, caliming they are cheap units with good stats, 2block and dodge. Personally I don't find much use for them.

 

[w00t5]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

People will swear by monks, caliming they are cheap units with good stats, 2block and dodge. Personally I don't find much use for them.

Gina was my go to unit against early rushes when I was really low level, but she has really seen little use from me of late. She was my first ccMAX unit, but I never even bothered to AW her after I shored up the levels in my team. I still keep her around in the 2nd rax, but she just doesn't seem she's worth the deployment slot anymore.

 

[exkale]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

People will swear by monks, caliming they are cheap units with good stats, 2block and dodge. Personally I don't find much use for them.

I'm not one to swear by them since I foresaw their limitations as I started progressing through the early game.

Gina definitely helped in the early game, especially when people are starting out. I found her to be extremely useful for the fairy rescue dailies as a new player because of Rush! and being able to block 2. She just doesn't transition well into the late-game because of her poor stats. The one thing I've noticed that stopped me from using Gina completely is how fast she gets destroyed by the kappa or kamaitachi in the Oriental Country story missions. Anything that attacks fast or hits hard with decent speed just makes monks cry.

I don't have much to comment about Ling, but I find Ur to be an exception among the monks. I haven't raised her to a usable state yet, but her high attack stat has great synergy with her skill (Rush!). She also gets the option to have true damage with her Skill AW. Her low defense will still scare me against powerful enemies.

I would say Angels are the class that made Monks irrelevant, or rather, placed into a niche position. At a slightly higher cost, you get a fighter with phenomenal stats, blocks multiple units, attacks all blocked units (CC+), and has high magic resistance. The only set-back is their inactivity while their skill is on cool-down, but people can work around that and it isn't long before it's ready again. As long as they can kill multiple units fast, without dying fast, then they serve a better purpose than monks can.

What monks needs is a better class-trait. Make it similar to AW Sailors, whereas monks get more evasion or defense on skill use instead of an AoE that Sailors get. Where is my Iron-Body monk!?

From another perspective, late-game content just makes certain classes ineffective choices, but not necessarily bad choices. Available units and team composition can make certain classes/characters work. Extreme Katie fans will build a team that makes her the "MVP," and sure as hell it is going to work because they will make it possible. We're all building teams around our standard compositions (healer, tank, duelists, fighters, and ranged dps), and that makes it so we don't usually have a lot of opportunities to build around other units. I'm trying my best to make my gimmick team and I will make sure it's going to work in the future, even if it's not as effective as my standard event-clearing team.

 

[Altrius]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

First time i felt ever so grateful with the timing of this 1.5x drop rate.
Overall i made 1.4mil gold from this monday daily (4SC spend)
The timing is just right when i have about 100k gold left and i just awaken Noel less than a week so this timing is just right.
+please don't ask how many plat cans drop i got cuz this make me cry T_T

Seriusly gold get unit, really important now for my team as I'm about to start doing aw skill.
Although atm i still can't think who to aw skill yet... probably main priorty Serra, but no silver soldier / priest warrior to aw her.
For people who do have gold get ability, how much gold you get roughtly estimate in pastoral gate at around 400 chr... Of coz this include selling the iron and bronze unit as well.
Want to compare it with the average gold get from monday daily (extreme tier) so about 5 run...

 

[Mangomon]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

Best thing about the Oasis map, don't need to scroll down near Pastoral Gate to find it.

 

[Petite Soeur]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

@Altrius:
Depends on who you're using. Lyra has a slow attack speed, so she will defeat less enemies than Betty (unless you Skill AW her), and then there's Maurette, who I haven't tested solo on that map, but this is a post I made earlier (couldn't find all of it here, so I must've posted the Rural Gate information on Himeuta). The information on Rural Gate assumes you have Gold Get units capable of defeating all 45 enemies.

Base Summoning:
Iron: 54.196912%; Bronze: 43.357524%; Silver: 2.384679%; Gold: 0.04543% (36.5%*); Platinum: 0.011352% (10%*); Black: 0.004128% (4%*)
*Chance of at Least One Every 1k Summons.

Base Summoning SP:
Iron: 32.998966%; Bronze: 43.99824%; Silver: 18.001269%; Gold: 4.399934% (98.88%*); Platinum: 0.55% (42.38%*); Black: 0.05% (4.8%*)
*Chance of at Least One Every 100 Summons.

1k Base Summons cost 2,000,000 gold; however you need less than that since you're going to be retiring all of the iron/bronze units, so you really only need around 1.5-1.7 million gold if you sell back iron/bronze units.

Golden Armour Extreme-tier (80/3) (Aggregate data: 499 trips) (30 enemies; 100,000 gold):
Gold Armour (60%); Platinum Armour (20%)

39 Stamina & 780 Charisma No Crystal Farming with AW Noel:
High-tier (13 Trips): 1.95 Plat (2.925 1.5x); 345,150 Gold (485,550 1.5x)
Extreme-tier (9 Trips*): 1.8 Plat (2.7 1.5x); 342,900 Gold (440,100 1.5x)
*60 Leftover Charisma; 12 Leftover Stamina; 1 Sacred Crystal On Charisma For +4 trips: 2.6 Plat Buckets (3.9 1.5x Bonus); 495,300 Gold (635,700 1.5x)

Spending 4 crystals for 4 Monday 13 trip sessions of the Golden Armour Extreme-tier map grants an average of 1,981,200 gold, which if you sell back all of the iron units will give you around 1139 summons. Essentially, you're spending 4 crystals on this map over four weeks for a 4% chance of a black unit versus 5 crystals for a 3% chance of one from a premium summon (ignoring any possible base summon silver, gold, and platinum units you may summon along the way).

Rural Gate (12) (45 enemies; 600 gold):
Iron Soldier (70x2), Iron Archer (70x2), Bronze Hector (50)
Gold Per Trip: 900 (990 with Noel); Selling Iron: 852 (+Hector: 1107); Total Possible Gold Per Charisma: 174.75; Gold Per Day: 83,880
Average Gold Per Trip With Gold Get and Noel: 2475 (1.5x Shop Bonus: 3712.5); Total Possible Gold Per Charisma: 298.5 (1.5x: 401.625); Gold Per Day: 143,280 (1.5x: 192,780)
2 Weeks: 2,005,920 (1.5x: 2,698,920); 5 Sacred Crystal on Charisma (Rank 200: 427): 637,297.5 (857,469.375); Possible Summons from 630k Gold: ~362 (850k: ~488)

 

[exkale]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

@Petite
Maurette can go solo at Rural Gate and be able to kill everything without letting an enemy pass. She does not require the prince at AW64 with just Aria's passive attack increase. Any lower will require the prince to be deployed.

 

[Altrius]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

@Altrius:

Rural Gate (12) (45 enemies; 600 gold):
Gold Per Day: 83,880

Eh ? only this much ? (1 day = 480 chr)
I though 1 SC could get me about 120-130k, guess i was mistaken....
So overall its best to spend SC in monday daily right for pure gold only

For Monday daily...
Dam at first i though OMG i should just go to high tier instead of extreme like what you written there they have higher payback
but again i was thinking what rank is that based on.
Today on Monday i did save chr and stm and my rank on 159, now that i though again... i was doing ok cuz i have more chr on stock than stm, so spending 4 SC on extreme still gave me the best choice for during this monday event. (total trip same with high tier cuz mainly need the stm recovery)

Hopefully 1.5 mil good enuff to let me last for all these aw + aw skill unit, but again thinking Serra / Paula aw + aw skill = 1M G fly away T_T...
Tuesday daily I still not sure if i should do it, main reason don't need black fairy or more like black fairy will cause my box full --> buy more storeage = more sc spend.../ but i need 12 plat fairy for reanbell >.<

 

[Petite Soeur]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

@Altrius:
It's only that much on average if you don't have a Gold Get or AW Elder Bishop Noel; these two will increase the average per trip by over 1.5x, which is why Gold Get is such a money making machine.

The Extreme-tier Golden Armour daily is the best for gold if you're marathoning it with sacred crystals (that comparison was if I was trying to farm that map if I didn't spend any crystals), though the difference between it and high-tier during this 1.5x event is minimal. Same goes for the God-tier daily, it really only has a higher plat armour drop than the Extreme-tier if you spend crystals to use up your leftover charisma.

High 20 Trips (1334/60; SC: 2; Left: 134/0): (3000*20*1.5)+(1.82*60*6000)=745,200 gold
Extreme 16 Trips (1334/60; SC: 2; Left: 54/12): (10000*16*1.5)+(1.82*48*6000)=764,160 gold

@exkale:
Does Maurette have to activate her skill at AW64? This is important, since always prefer strategies that don't require skills.


Spirit Rescue Info:

Spoiler

Spirit Rescue Beginner-tier (聖霊救出 初級) (15/2)
Silver (51): 0.51/2=0.255; 0.51/15=0.034
Gold (26): 0.26/2=0.13; 0.26/15=0.0173
Plat (11): 0.11/2=0.055; 0.11/15=0.0073
Black (6): 0.06/2=0.03; 0.06/15=0.004
Rainbow (2): 0.02/2=0.01; 0.04/2=0.02; 0.05/2=0.025 (Normal; Seria; AW Seria)

Spirit Rescue Mid-tier (聖霊救出 中級) (30/3)
Silver (71): 0.71/3=0.236; 0.71/30=0.0236
Gold (41): 0.41/3=0.136; 0.41/30=0.0136
Plat (21): 0.21/3=0.07; 0.21/30=0.007
Black (11): 0.11/3=0.036; 0.11/30=0.0036
Rainbow (3): 0.03/3=0.01; 0.05/3=0.0167; 0.06/3=0.02 (Normal; Seria; AW Seria)

Spirit Rescue High-tier (聖霊救出 上級) (60/6)
Gold (100): 1/6=0.16; 1/60=0.016
Plat (26x2): 0.26*2/6=0.086; 0.26*2/60=0.0086
Black (13x2): 0.13*2/6=0.043; 0.13*2/60=0.0043
Rainbow (3x2): 0.03*2/6=0.01; 0.05*2/6=0.0167; 0.06*2/6=0.02 (Normal; Seria; AW Seria)

Spirit Rescue Extreme-tier (聖霊救出 極級) (80/6) (150 Trips)
Plat (31x2): 0.31*2/6=0.103; 0.31*2/80=0.00775
Black (21x3): 0.21*3/6=0.105; 0.21*3/80=0.007875
Rainbow (4x2): 0.04*2/6=0.013; 0.04*2/80=0.001 (Sta/Cha)

Spirit Rescue God-tier (聖霊救出 神級) (80/8) (50 Trips)
Plat (41x2): 0.41*2/8=0.1025; 0.41*2/80=0.01025
Black (36x3): 0.36*3/8=0.135; 0.26*3/80=0.00975
Rainbow (5x2): 0.05*2/8=0.0125; 0.05*2/80=0.00125 (Sta/Cha)

I didn't do calculations for the 1.5x event, but these maps are linear (do God-tier) unless you have Seria, then things become complicated. Normally, it's do beginner-tier with her for the rainbow fairies, but I haven't calculated her with the extreme or god tier maps during a 1.5x bonus event.

 

[exkale]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

Her AW skill is unnecessary.

I did make a slight error since I kept thinking the goblin's HP was 610 when it's 615. At level 64, she'll have 612 attack with Aria so she'll need to be at level 67~68 to be able to kill them in one hit. At level 80, she can solo them without any passive buff assistance.

It's been months since I've last thought about this and it is why I made that error. Another reason is that I've always had Sherry and Aria in the team, so I've never bothered checking with lower values. In the past, prior to the recent balance update, it was required that I had both Sherry and Aria in the team just so that Maurette can reach the threshold without the prince. I can recall that AW80 Maurette, in the past, couldn't kill the goblins in one hit if she had no buff assistance. Thanks to the balance changes, it has become possible for her to do it without any assistance since her final attack stat is at 617.

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[Altrius]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

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1 month + 6 days until maurette come out in trading.... (next 1 is gold angel if follow pattern)
Dam you making me regret using maurete as aw fodder for spica >.<
Well at least the good part i was able to clear thursday extreme (before godly daily out) + event map + subjugation because of her so i guess this still ok.

I will be sure to get Maurette when she pop-ed and try at least CR-2 her so she can be useful to clear event map as well...

As for farming gold...
after doing all the calculation with my stat rank.....
there some part i dont understand there, which is the calculation on the gold armour...
On the extreme whats the multiplier of 1.82? (drop rate with 1.5x event ?) also 16 trip = 16 x 6 = 96 chance of gold armour drop..... whats 48 came from ?

I'm also trying math calculating the comparison without the 1.5x drop event, just in case i need Gold once i got Maurrete, which i will power lvl her as soon i got (plenty of silver bandit / rogue + saving pirate) in 1month+
Sorry if i asked too much and want to know alot in detail, as I'm starting steping to AW skill.... M-O-N-E-Y.... going to become major problem really soon (luckily i still stock plenty AW orb)

PS: my target is still able to clear all event and subjugation so i need to keep strengthen my team.
Dark priest event + katie subjugation made me understand that i still in need to keep upgrading my team.

 

[Petite Soeur]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

On the extreme whats the multiplier of 1.82? (drop rate with 1.5x event ?) also 16 trip = 16 x 6 = 96 chance of gold armour drop..... whats 48 came from ?

48 is the amount of stamina, since the comparison did 16 trips, which means I'm spending 48 stamina. The map drops 1.82 gold armours per stamina during a 1.5x drop bonus event. I'm calculating the average; that's why I need accurate drop data information.

@exkale:
OK, that's good. I was worried that she wouldn't be able to handle the rush of goblins after the 3 soldiers without her explosive shot. I would use a Dancer over the Prince if you need a small boost in stats. Hana can be Cost 3, so that's much simpler to handle than deploying a Prince if you're off by a little bit. Though, in my case, I would have to use a Cost 5 (-4) Waltz.

I bring Waltz with me all of the time to help with farming for gold; when I do new event maps, I always try to figure out strategies where I can use Maurette, Betty, Waltz, and Patra based on the map and description, though events like Miranda's where they had the ghost armours pissed me off because they had a train of armours swoop to the upper right, so they completely avoided Anya guarding that exit so she couldn't stop them, and there wasn't any good ranged spots up there, so I couldn't catch them with an Arch Witch. Nonsense like that is why I watch videos before doing high/extreme maps because I don't have time redoing them when I need to translate the story without spending crystals...

 

[Altrius]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

Ok so i'm puting my calculation now:
I'm going to use my rank as the base though which is rank 160 (well 159 now but its so close for xtra stm)

At rank 160: chr 387 / 16 stm
using petite calculation of 16 trip
Extreme (1.5x event): 1280 chr / 48stm: (10000*16*1.5)+(1.82*48*6000)=764,160 gold
Extreme (no event): (10000*16*1.5)+(1.55*48*6000)=686,400 gold
Extreme (no event with Noel): (10000*16*1.5*1.1)+(1.55*48*6000)=710,400 gold

Well now converting how much CHR i got if i use the SC to recovery stm to chr for rural gate gold farming with gold get ability: (since 48 stm /16 = 3SC used to recover)
Total CHR gained as R160: 1280 chr + 3 x 387chr = 2441 chr

Using petite calculation again for rural gate:
Average Gold Per Trip With Gold Get and Noel: Gold Per Charisma: 298.5
Calculation: 2441 x 298.5 =728,638.5G

Conclusion: no event, Xtreme Monday with noel (710,400G) VS same cost SC to recover chr only for rural gate (728,638.5G) at rank 160...
Seem like spending SC for extreme monday way more worth it, as the difference is too small for the exchange *chance of platinum cans*

 

[exkale]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

@Altrius
Good luck! I bought 4 copies of Maurette when she was in the trading post. One used as an AW material, and the other 3 fed into the main one. End result: -1 cost.

@Petite
I actually brought Maurette to that level because I was trying to see if I can one-shot the big goblin. I can't remember if I did end up killing it in one hit or not, but it did involve using Waltz. I previously used Betty for Rural gate in tandem with either Waltz or Maurette whenever I wanted to change things up, but it got to the point where I thought, "Do I need to deploy Betty?" After trying it out, I was proven correct and that Maurette, with some help from Waltz, can clear every enemy in Rural Gate. From thereon, I got her to AW64 so that she can kill goblins immediately without the help of Waltz. It also made my life easier since there was a story mission drop increase event and all I needed to deploy was Maurette.

 

[Petite Soeur]

Re: Aegis Thousand Year War - DMM Online Game

I spent points on crystals to obtain Imelia at mincost and skill max, yet I never brought her along or felt like I needed to use my emergency resources on her to 3-star any difficult maps. But I spent real money to have her, so I need to make some use out of her, otherwise I'll feel foolish. That said, she is the best duelist for free players, and for me she does turn into a beast.

AW61 Stats:
HP: 3383 (Imelia+Adelle Ability)
Skill AT (30s): 1810 (1292 dps); Versus Armour-type: 3258 (2327 dps) (Aria Ability)
AW Skill AT (45s): 2081 (1486 dps); Versus Armour-type: 3747 (2676 dps) (Aria Ability)
Skill DF (30s): 839; B. Iris AW Skill: 2099 (Iris Ability)
AW Skill DF (45s): 965; B. Iris AW Skill: 2414 (Iris Ability)

My Relationship with Imelia:

Spoiler

Event:

Today:

I'm quite disappointed that Imelia's AW Skill doesn't turn her into a werewolf; it would explain so much about her character, and why her elder sister, Anelia, fled the castle to become a pirate because Imelia kept tearing up the cushions in her bedroom and peeing over her carpet, opening up wormholes to the dog piss dimension.

EDIT:

Someone made a battle simulator where you can pit two characters against each other to see who's the strongest:

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ナナリー　VS　リオン (Nanaly vs Leone)
ナナリー勝利 (Nanaly Wins)

Shame, I thought there was some truth to the meme that Nanaly dies every day.

ナナリー　VS　ナナリー (Nanaly vs Nanaly)
ナナリー勝利 (Left Nanaly Wins)

I thought they would kill each other off in a double KO like this:

Spoiler

In any case, left one is my Nanaly (base summon) that I found in a dumpster looking for food to eat when I was searching for a hobo silver mage that Mehlis #2 could bonk over the head with her staff before stuffing a gold fairy in their cracked cranium to 30CC1 herself. The right Nanaly is one of the many that crawled out of the Goddess's grotesque vagina (premium summon) that's like a cross between a black hole and the bog of eternal stench. Furthermore, premium Nanaly is a phantasm; you think you're having ecchi fun times with her, but in truth you're suffering from delusional fantasies, and are really getting double-teamed by Funes and Mortimer instead. Tragic...