Arara
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RPG Patreon Active Unknown/Hiatus RPG Maker [SHOEGAZER] Dungeons and Prisoners (RJ113419)
Striker101
Jungle Girl
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Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
Really good to see you still working on this ILL, been with you since you first announced it. I understand you're overcoming hardship, take your time, do it right. Some individuals just don't seem to give a crap, but I think enough of us really support you in this. Keep up the great work man! Push it when your ready, not when other people want it.
Really good to see you still working on this ILL, been with you since you first announced it. I understand you're overcoming hardship, take your time, do it right. Some individuals just don't seem to give a crap, but I think enough of us really support you in this. Keep up the great work man! Push it when your ready, not when other people want it.
Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
I'm still here checking up on your progress since the beginning ILL. As said most of us fully support your "Release when it's ready" style, so hang in there and keep at it.
I wouldn't worry about the very few that screams about wanting the porn immediately and threaten you with their patronage:
1. From what can be glimpsed of their personality I doubt they're the type of people who would actually pay for your game or support you no matter when you released it. Some or many of these types probably aren't old enough to have a credit card yet.
2. When the game finally comes out, those who would've enjoy your game would still enjoy it and support you. Those who planned to pirate it would still do the same, the timing of your release won't change any of that in any noticeable way.
Just beating a dead horse as usual and stating the obvious, keep up the good work ILL. All the best to your health especially.
I'm still here checking up on your progress since the beginning ILL
. As said most of us fully support your "Release when it's ready" style, so hang in there and keep at it. I wouldn't worry about the very few that screams about wanting the porn immediately and threaten you with their patronage:
1. From what can be glimpsed of their personality I doubt they're the type of people who would actually pay for your game or support you no matter when you released it. Some or many of these types probably aren't old enough to have a credit card yet.
2. When the game finally comes out, those who would've enjoy your game would still enjoy it and support you. Those who planned to pirate it would still do the same, the timing of your release won't change any of that in any noticeable way.
Just beating a dead horse as usual and stating the obvious, keep up the good work ILL. All the best to your health especially.
noman
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Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
I am not sure how many of you have experience in programming, but generally speaking, debugging takes much longer than writing the code, and the time requirement increases almost exponentially.
I am not sure how many of you have experience in programming, but generally speaking, debugging takes much longer than writing the code, and the time requirement increases almost exponentially.
Nimrod
Grim Reaper
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Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
And even when you think you're done, there will still be bugs.
Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
why not just finish everything up? then just do the bug fixing later?
I may not be experienced with programing but whatever project I create, I always do the maintenance afterwards.
why not just finish everything up? then just do the bug fixing later?
I may not be experienced with programing but whatever project I create, I always do the maintenance afterwards.
Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
That would have to depend on how major the bugs are. Even then, I still support a more complete product than a glitchy one.
An extreme example (but not necessarily uncommon nowadays) would be Battlefield 4, which is plagued with bugs despite being a finished product. While playable, things can become game-breaking at times.
That would have to depend on how major the bugs are. Even then, I still support a more complete product than a glitchy one.
An extreme example (but not necessarily uncommon nowadays) would be Battlefield 4, which is plagued with bugs despite being a finished product. While playable, things can become game-breaking at times.
YandereKun
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Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
As far as the translation goes, I do not believe an English version should hold back the original product, and I wouldn't consider it incomplete without it either, especially since the translation is a privilege that wasn't even originally planned. (I'm sure the Japanese audience would agree.) Although in the end it is up to the developer.
Stress. People will be very angry if your product isn't working. While it's unreleased, he can take his time and fix things at his own pace.
As far as the translation goes, I do not believe an English version should hold back the original product, and I wouldn't consider it incomplete without it either, especially since the translation is a privilege that wasn't even originally planned. (I'm sure the Japanese audience would agree.) Although in the end it is up to the developer.
comradered
Evard's Tentacles of Forced Intrusion
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Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
That's a really bad idea. Imagine selling a defective product and having your customers scream obscenities at you. Telling them a patch will be on the way would probably just piss them off some more.
foamy111
Tentacle God
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Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
I can vouch for this. I get annoyed at Bethesda all the time for releasing their games with game-breaking bugs.
karmapowered
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Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
In the best case, support for such games (bug fixing, or "adding" in promised features that didn't make it for release) will be provided for a couple of weeks/months, but then dropped without notice like a wet bag, as such support typically does not pay the bills at the end of the month. Budgets and time allocated to create games are limited, everyone can understand that, but I don't have to support poor business practices or bad management decisions with my money.
Give the real power back to developpers that have the talent and skills to create the good (and fully functional) games that we want to play. If I have to wait, or pay more for it (gasp!), then so be it.
Fuck marketing, stock-options driven management and the "I want it NOAW!!1!" crowd, who more often than not don't have the slightest clue about sane game development processes
ILL, please create the game like YOU want it done, in the way YOU know it is possible to be done, in the BEST way possible to be done.
/rant off
This. A hundred times this. I have stopped purchasing (aka paying with my money the work done on) games from some (well known) developpers/publishers because of this. I am sick of day 1 patches amounting to several hundred Mo (or even Go) to download (at snail speed, because "servers are overloaded") before I can even start playing games, if I ever get to play them like I should.
In the best case, support for such games (bug fixing, or "adding" in promised features that didn't make it for release) will be provided for a couple of weeks/months, but then dropped without notice like a wet bag, as such support typically does not pay the bills at the end of the month. Budgets and time allocated to create games are limited, everyone can understand that, but I don't have to support poor business practices or bad management decisions with my money.
Give the real power back to developpers that have the talent and skills to create the good (and fully functional) games that we want to play. If I have to wait, or pay more for it (gasp!), then so be it.
Fuck marketing, stock-options driven management and the "I want it NOAW!!1!" crowd, who more often than not don't have the slightest clue about sane game development processes
ILL, please create the game like YOU want it done, in the way YOU know it is possible to be done, in the BEST way possible to be done.
/rant off
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Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
None of you have a sense for business, or user satisfaction.
Making a 1.00 version that is basically the barebones game mechanics along with the story and porn, then releasing bug fixes as they appear is a much better approach than making a demo and releasing it, then redoing that demo an infinite number of times "until you're satisfied".
Nothing is stopping him from uploading the patched versions to the dlsite either.
Same applies to changes in game mechanics and additional content.
If all he cares about is stroking his own ego then why the hell is he putting his game up for sale instead of just giving it away for free?
I am telling you that I WANT TO give him my money to play this.
At this pace this game will be stuck in development hell for a LOOONG time.
None of you have a sense for business, or user satisfaction.
Making a 1.00 version that is basically the barebones game mechanics along with the story and porn, then releasing bug fixes as they appear is a much better approach than making a demo and releasing it, then redoing that demo an infinite number of times "until you're satisfied".
Nothing is stopping him from uploading the patched versions to the dlsite either.
Same applies to changes in game mechanics and additional content.
If all he cares about is stroking his own ego then why the hell is he putting his game up for sale instead of just giving it away for free?
I am telling you that I WANT TO give him my money to play this.
At this pace this game will be stuck in development hell for a LOOONG time.
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Esgaldin
Demon Girl Master
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Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
Tomorrow should out the new Scale garden game. People waiting this more than 2 years now, this is what I call a really long, but no complaint, so stop bitching in this tread just sit and wait until its be a really finale product.
Tomorrow should out the new Scale garden game. People waiting this more than 2 years now, this is what I call a really long, but no complaint, so stop bitching in this tread just sit and wait until its be a really finale product.
Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
There being worse alternatives does not under any circumstance make it a good thing.
Because Hitler committed genocide it should be ok if I kill just a dozen or so. That's how you sound right now.
There being worse alternatives does not under any circumstance make it a good thing.
ments
Evard's Tentacles of Forced Intrusion
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Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
Just stop bitching around about release date - you are acting like a little kids in store, where mommy don't buy candy. Its pretty stupid to demand author, to publish his work just because someone can't wait to start polishing his rocket.
Just stop bitching around about release date - you are acting like a little kids in store, where mommy don't buy candy. Its pretty stupid to demand author, to publish his work just because someone can't wait to start polishing his rocket.
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ILL
Evard's Tentacles of Forced Intrusion
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Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
This is a certain fact, making game with imcomplete script it'll be waste double or more time.
adjusting event commands for new script it makes bug easier than create new event.
and I can't release game while "This is not enough" running through my head.
This is a certain fact, making game with imcomplete script it'll be waste double or more time.
adjusting event commands for new script it makes bug easier than create new event.
and I can't release game while "This is not enough" running through my head.
Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
As for business sense, look at Egosoft's recent release of X:Rebirth. It was rushed. Horrible, but the basic gameplay was there under the bugs. People demanded refunds in droves and patching is still going and will for quite awhile. They did almost exactly like you stated. If ILL decided to do that and the whiplash caused him to not turn a profit, this game could never be released in a finished state and we'd never see anymore of his beautiful art. That would be a tragedy for all H-gamer kind. Better to be up to a perfectionist's sense of perfect, even if it took more time, then to be rushed and cleaned up after. And besides, ILL doesn't have to rush as he's the only creator and doesn't have to worry about paying dev teams to help before the start-up money ran out. And another thing, veteran H-gamers are a pretty patient bunch, ILL doesn't have to rush for nobody because most of us are willing to wait.
And as for worse alternatives, look at car crashes or something. You could lose the car, but with the worse alternative being death, I'd say there being worse alternatives is definitely good under those circumstances. Unless you were still talking about Hitler, but why the hell would you go straight to Hitler in a forum debate in a forum for hentai?
That's a super leap of logic, what he said was more like "look at this product; took 2 years and the quality of the creators previous work was good enough that the wait for the new game seemed reasonable". Scalegardens games are venerated throughout the forums because of their quality, regardless of the time spent in development. Dungeons and Prisoners has the same potential, and has been in development for less time so far and will be released in less time to boot.
As for business sense, look at Egosoft's recent release of X:Rebirth. It was rushed. Horrible, but the basic gameplay was there under the bugs. People demanded refunds in droves and patching is still going and will for quite awhile. They did almost exactly like you stated. If ILL decided to do that and the whiplash caused him to not turn a profit, this game could never be released in a finished state and we'd never see anymore of his beautiful art. That would be a tragedy for all H-gamer kind. Better to be up to a perfectionist's sense of perfect, even if it took more time, then to be rushed and cleaned up after. And besides, ILL doesn't have to rush as he's the only creator and doesn't have to worry about paying dev teams to help before the start-up money ran out. And another thing, veteran H-gamers are a pretty patient bunch, ILL doesn't have to rush for nobody because most of us are willing to wait.
And as for worse alternatives, look at car crashes or something. You could lose the car, but with the worse alternative being death, I'd say there being worse alternatives is definitely good under those circumstances. Unless you were still talking about Hitler, but why the hell would you go straight to Hitler in a forum debate in a forum for hentai?
Esgaldin
Demon Girl Master
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Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
Ok, now you start confused the soft things with the warm things, good troll. But like I said previously just shut up and stop bitching and yelling.
madman3237
Tentacle God
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Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
The first one to reference Hitler in any argument has already lost.
Keep calm and don't feed the troll.
The first one to reference Hitler in any argument has already lost.
Keep calm and don't feed the troll.
bemmont
Jungle Girl
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Re: RJ113419 - Dungeons and Prisoners
wow, Godwin Law is really infallible
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[2][3] In other words, Godwin said that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a comparison to Hitler or the Nazis.
wow, Godwin Law is really infallible