Zelzar
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Favourite Villain(s)
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Cappy
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Re: Favourite Villain(s)
The philosophical concept of duality and concepts such as "Good" and "Evil" actually existing is old hat, I'm pretty sure everybody has had a passing thought on the matter, then moved on after mulling it over awhile, returning to the belief that what is politically correct or personally captivating being good with things that are unpleasant and/or politically incorrect being evil. Religious and moralist figures around the world have large opinions on the matter, and as a matter of fact so does every person around.
Edit: It just occurred to me that my rant ahead is off-topic, and I got caught up after reading some posts about the topic. If you're not interested in my highly opinionated rambling I'd suggest skipping over this.
The philosophical concept of duality and concepts such as "Good" and "Evil" actually existing is old hat, I'm pretty sure everybody has had a passing thought on the matter, then moved on after mulling it over awhile, returning to the belief that what is politically correct or personally captivating being good with things that are unpleasant and/or politically incorrect being evil. Religious and moralist figures around the world have large opinions on the matter, and as a matter of fact so does every person around.
Edit: It just occurred to me that my rant ahead is off-topic, and I got caught up after reading some posts about the topic. If you're not interested in my highly opinionated rambling I'd suggest skipping over this.
If I were to have a say from a purely worldly perspective of what Evil is, I would say that the Buddhists have it right. Imbalance is evil, trying to oppress either side of the spectrum to the point that people are abnormally hurt or uncomfortable with life is the "True Evil". While the regular acts of evil, such as acts of inconvenience upon other people, theft, moderate bullying, serve a purpose of giving people a thick-skin, or helping them grow personally, in order to develop their own opinion of what is wrong or right.
The "True Evil" as I see it, is when somebody takes a concept too far one way or the other, a prime example would be over-zealousness of any kind. The Crusades from the Catholic church caused massive amounts of death in the name of a Religion that doesn't even support that kind of behaviour in the first place. Some could say that Jihads are of the same ilk. My own personal example is somewhat controversial, and I may well catch flak for this, but there are plenty of over-zealous feminists, who, caught up in the glory of restoring the rights of female kind forget the true meaning of the word sexism, and become over-sensitive misandrists determined to put down the disgusting sexist regime of menkind as a whole. Whoa, calm down there, I just want to put it out there that if you call my gender disgusting as a whole one more time I'm going to go put on my masculinist uniform and challenge you to an arm-wrestle. (On a side note, feminists who are actually for equality and balance are cool like an autumn breeze.
But that's not my *pure* opinion, obviously there are some bad things I try to push too far and some good things I try to push too far, I'm certainly not a very balanced person myself, but I like to think it's because I'm reacting to the world's imbalanced perspective. Then again, that's a somewhat hypocritical opinion, and from there everything I think about the matter starts to become mish mashed and redundant in some way or another. In one way, it's a very simple subject, in others it's very, very complicated.
But in closing, too much of a good thing is a bad thing, and too little of a bad thing is also bad. And vice versa etc etc...
PS: I think that this is a flawed argument in many ways, but if you poke hard enough at anything it becomes flawed. Just ask any good defence attorney.
The "True Evil" as I see it, is when somebody takes a concept too far one way or the other, a prime example would be over-zealousness of any kind. The Crusades from the Catholic church caused massive amounts of death in the name of a Religion that doesn't even support that kind of behaviour in the first place. Some could say that Jihads are of the same ilk. My own personal example is somewhat controversial, and I may well catch flak for this, but there are plenty of over-zealous feminists, who, caught up in the glory of restoring the rights of female kind forget the true meaning of the word sexism, and become over-sensitive misandrists determined to put down the disgusting sexist regime of menkind as a whole. Whoa, calm down there, I just want to put it out there that if you call my gender disgusting as a whole one more time I'm going to go put on my masculinist uniform and challenge you to an arm-wrestle. (On a side note, feminists who are actually for equality and balance are cool like an autumn breeze.
But that's not my *pure* opinion, obviously there are some bad things I try to push too far and some good things I try to push too far, I'm certainly not a very balanced person myself, but I like to think it's because I'm reacting to the world's imbalanced perspective. Then again, that's a somewhat hypocritical opinion, and from there everything I think about the matter starts to become mish mashed and redundant in some way or another. In one way, it's a very simple subject, in others it's very, very complicated.
But in closing, too much of a good thing is a bad thing, and too little of a bad thing is also bad. And vice versa etc etc...
PS: I think that this is a flawed argument in many ways, but if you poke hard enough at anything it becomes flawed. Just ask any good defence attorney.
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Serifyn
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Re: Favourite Villain(s)
Surely there are things we can easily label as Evil many of the acts which Chibichibi listed above are some of which, but for the most part, these people are mentally disturbed and don't have a healthy mind, gaining satisfaction from the suffering of others, it is unnatural.
Alot of people do 'Evil' acts however when they are perfectly sane.
What makes most villains fun is their absurdity, to create a caricature so appalling that their existence and function is interesting, and because it is fiction, it is fun to observe their actions. We all know who the 'Hero' is in every story, he is considered 'good' and holds many 'good' fundamentals. It is my opinion that fundamentally flawed protagonists and antagonists make for the best kinds of characters, people whose story is detailed and believable enough that you can empathize with both.....then it becomes a microcosm for humanity's interaction with one another.
This is most of what i was trying to convey, but better explained. 'Evil' is an opinion of another's actions and it can be justified in many different ways.
Surely there are things we can easily label as Evil many of the acts which Chibichibi listed above are some of which, but for the most part, these people are mentally disturbed and don't have a healthy mind, gaining satisfaction from the suffering of others, it is unnatural.
Alot of people do 'Evil' acts however when they are perfectly sane.
What makes most villains fun is their absurdity, to create a caricature so appalling that their existence and function is interesting, and because it is fiction, it is fun to observe their actions. We all know who the 'Hero' is in every story, he is considered 'good' and holds many 'good' fundamentals. It is my opinion that fundamentally flawed protagonists and antagonists make for the best kinds of characters, people whose story is detailed and believable enough that you can empathize with both.....then it becomes a microcosm for humanity's interaction with one another.
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Re: Favourite Villain(s)
I don't mean to be a stickler here, but really anything that occurs without the intervetion of technology should be considered natural. Psychopaths occur naturally, and I know of several types of animals that will kill just for the sake of killing, I think both fall into the category of evil quite well.
AS for a favorite villan? Damn you people took all the good ones... though I'm awfully surprised that Lucifer hasn't come up yet.
I don't mean to be a stickler here, but really anything that occurs without the intervetion of technology should be considered natural. Psychopaths occur naturally, and I know of several types of animals that will kill just for the sake of killing, I think both fall into the category of evil quite well.
AS for a favorite villan? Damn you people took all the good ones... though I'm awfully surprised that Lucifer hasn't come up yet.
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Re: Favourite Villain(s)
Suuuuure is villains up in here
Anyway, I just remembered:
Somewhat similarly,
There's no fancy LP for him to explain what he's all about, so basically, the heroine of that particular chapter (pictured in the fore) in the game is reeeally hung up on her fiance's death. That guy (his name's Masque de Corbeau, by the way) basically has a fetish for misery, and she just fits the bill perfectly! Using illusions, he basically appears as her dead fiance and almost turns the heroes against themselves with said whatsits.
So basically, he's a plague doctor (awesome) illusionist (best magical styling) and more or less a malicious dick of a troll (totally the best kind of villain). Did I mention plague doctor? Because plague doctor.
He's just fucking so rad looking. Dat mask. Dat wide-brimmed hat. Dat billowing cloak.
Here's a plot synopsis of his chapter, also.
I may or may not have a certain RP character whose clothing appearance is based on him.
Unrelatedly, the green chick in SW3 is the best heroine.
Suuuuure is villains up in here
Anyway, I just remembered:
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, from Cowboy Bebop. He's fucking scary.
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. Hagowasanfa or whatever the fuck.
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. from Sakura Wars 5. Dokurobo. He's the best derp villain.Somewhat similarly,
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from Sakura Wars 3. Hnngh. He's such a dick.
There's no fancy LP for him to explain what he's all about, so basically, the heroine of that particular chapter (pictured in the fore) in the game is reeeally hung up on her fiance's death. That guy (his name's Masque de Corbeau, by the way) basically has a fetish for misery, and she just fits the bill perfectly! Using illusions, he basically appears as her dead fiance and almost turns the heroes against themselves with said whatsits.
So basically, he's a plague doctor (awesome) illusionist (best magical styling) and more or less a malicious dick of a troll (totally the best kind of villain). Did I mention plague doctor? Because plague doctor.
He's just fucking so rad looking. Dat mask. Dat wide-brimmed hat. Dat billowing cloak.
Here's a plot synopsis of his chapter, also.
You must be registered to see the links
Also
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. Stylin' as fuck, even if all he does is hold his sword out and fail at hitting shit with it.I may or may not have a certain RP character whose clothing appearance is based on him.
Unrelatedly, the green chick in SW3 is the best heroine.
Chibichibi
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Re: Favourite Villain(s)
I gotta say, my favorite Villains (in general) are the ones that have a goal in mind and are... believable in their goals. Ones that could easily be the protagonist if the circumstances were turned around and you followed their story instead.
Someone who kills a King, for instance because they thought they could rule with a more just hand, only to find it easier to turn to fear instead of love for ruling; not because they are bad people, but because they are fearful themselves.
I think the best example I can think of in the main Antagonist from Dungeon Siege 3. Jeyne Kassynder :3 God, I /love/ her.
Loghain is another believable Antagonist that I adore.
I gotta say, my favorite Villains (in general) are the ones that have a goal in mind and are... believable in their goals. Ones that could easily be the protagonist if the circumstances were turned around and you followed their story instead.
Someone who kills a King, for instance because they thought they could rule with a more just hand, only to find it easier to turn to fear instead of love for ruling; not because they are bad people, but because they are fearful themselves.
I think the best example I can think of in the main Antagonist from Dungeon Siege 3. Jeyne Kassynder :3 God, I /love/ her.
Loghain is another believable Antagonist that I adore.
Serifyn
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Re: Favourite Villain(s)
Villains who have confidence are always the best type, who firmly believe their actions no matter how despicable are a justifiable means to an end, Ryan And House were both idealists who are willing to do terrible things in order to realize their vision of utopia.
Speaking of Obsidian games, Mr. House and Caesar from Fallout New Vegas were great villains, as were Andrew Ryan and Frank Fontaine from K2's Bioshock.
Villains who have confidence are always the best type, who firmly believe their actions no matter how despicable are a justifiable means to an end, Ryan And House were both idealists who are willing to do terrible things in order to realize their vision of utopia.
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Minerve
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Re: Favourite Villain(s)
My favorite antagonist - not villain, villains are for American - is that wonderful guy, Lee Woo-Jin, in
Actually, it's funny but in South Korea's thrillers, the worse badass is always the main character.
My favorite antagonist - not villain, villains are for American - is that wonderful guy, Lee Woo-Jin, in
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. He's so nice... Actually, the bad guy in the story is more the main character, Oh Dae-Su...Actually, it's funny but in South Korea's thrillers, the worse badass is always the main character.
Unnatural Kiwi
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Re: Favourite Villain(s)
After reading the prequel book, all his motivations become that much more clear. I was probably one of the very few that didn't see his betrayal coming from a mile away because of it.
Chibichibi
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Re: Favourite Villain(s)
I read the books afterwards, so that's why I love him so much. I remember you said his betrayal was like a punch to the guts and I could see that after I read them. It was... powerful.
Unknown Squid
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Re: Favourite Villain(s)
I like reading about all the different styles of villain here. I was surprised about how even Eggman/Robotnik can be painted in a curious light when you actually stop to think about him. The believable villains like Loghain have always been a favourite of mine, though I can certainly appreciate the other kinds, when done well.
One set of villains I've always found amusing that hasn't been mentioned here yet, is the various antagonists of the Touhou series, and their strange and often inocent-ish motivations or plots. As something of a theme, they're almost never deliberately trying to incite disaster, but do so anyway as a by-product of some other personal goal, along with a hefty dose of being oblivious to the harm their doing or simply not caring until confronted. The conclusion to nearly all the stories is the "villain" being scolded by the protagonists, and agreeing one way or another to not do it again, or that they were being unreasonable. The epilogue often involves both hero and villain sitting down to casually chat over tea immediately after the fight on more than one occasion.
Two examples...
Remilia Scarlet: 500 year old Vampire.
Villainous activity: Shrouds the land with a magical scarlet mist, that blocks the vampire harming effects of the sun light. No other nefarious plot or special motivation is involved beyond her wanting to be able to stroll about in the daytime, and not much caring about whether others would mind the world turning red. When the protagonists foil her scheme, she's not even really bothered and takes it all in her stride.
Yuyuko Saigyouji: Ancient spirit that watches over and maintains death and the afterlife.
Villainous activity: Steals spring. Which in the setting more or less means hoarding away all the life-force that should arrive in the world to kick-start spring. The reason for doing so is her whim to revive the spirit of a corpse buried beneath a great demon cherry tree in the gardens of her netherworld. The key to doing so, is breaking the seals on the placed on the ancient tree by making it bloom, which requires a massive amount of spirit/life-force. In her rather ditzy mindset, she seems to forget that the rest of the world needs that life-force. No harm intended. Despite her troublesome gardening urges being stopped forcibly, she would have failed regardless, due to not realising that the body under the tree was infact her own, and that there was no waiting spirit locked within after all. It's implied that she would have to knowingly destroy her current self to succeed in the resurrection.
One examples of a Touhou villain that bucks the trend a little, but retains a degree of innocent motivation, is Utsuho. A "Yatagarasu" (Hell raven) who as the pet of one of the keepers of a no longer active section of hell, has the job of keeping the hell fires burning (by stoking it with evil spirits, of course). Since the part of hell she lives in is essentially forgotten and "not in business", she is more or less redundant and depressed by it. When a mysterious god visits to grant her an incredible power that could relight the fires with ease, she gets a bit too excited, and decides that "burn everything!" including the entire surface world, would be a great way to show off this new power and impress/gain the favour of her mistress/owner.
So she doesn't (intend to) burn down the world out of malice, but rather an eagerness to impress her friends and rediscover a lost sense of purpose.
The closest antagonist to being a real "evil" villain, is a bored celestial who literally begins starting disasters and brewing an apocalyptic earthquake, purely as a means of attention seeking and entertainment, despite knowing full well (and hoping) that lots of people will show up intending to stop her games and punish her. Even despite the no shits given attitude, it's evident that she never really was aiming for total calamity, but was still going to make people fight to prevent it. Describing her as a masochistic troll with too much power and spare time on her hands might be more accurate than truly evil. The conclusion to her story doesn't involve tea this time, but instead booze, peaches, and helping to rebuild the protagonists house that she destroyed for the lulz.
I like reading about all the different styles of villain here. I was surprised about how even Eggman/Robotnik can be painted in a curious light when you actually stop to think about him. The believable villains like Loghain have always been a favourite of mine, though I can certainly appreciate the other kinds, when done well.
One set of villains I've always found amusing that hasn't been mentioned here yet, is the various antagonists of the Touhou series, and their strange and often inocent-ish motivations or plots. As something of a theme, they're almost never deliberately trying to incite disaster, but do so anyway as a by-product of some other personal goal, along with a hefty dose of being oblivious to the harm their doing or simply not caring until confronted. The conclusion to nearly all the stories is the "villain" being scolded by the protagonists, and agreeing one way or another to not do it again, or that they were being unreasonable. The epilogue often involves both hero and villain sitting down to casually chat over tea immediately after the fight on more than one occasion.
Two examples...
Remilia Scarlet: 500 year old Vampire.
Villainous activity: Shrouds the land with a magical scarlet mist, that blocks the vampire harming effects of the sun light. No other nefarious plot or special motivation is involved beyond her wanting to be able to stroll about in the daytime, and not much caring about whether others would mind the world turning red. When the protagonists foil her scheme, she's not even really bothered and takes it all in her stride.
Yuyuko Saigyouji: Ancient spirit that watches over and maintains death and the afterlife.
Villainous activity: Steals spring. Which in the setting more or less means hoarding away all the life-force that should arrive in the world to kick-start spring. The reason for doing so is her whim to revive the spirit of a corpse buried beneath a great demon cherry tree in the gardens of her netherworld. The key to doing so, is breaking the seals on the placed on the ancient tree by making it bloom, which requires a massive amount of spirit/life-force. In her rather ditzy mindset, she seems to forget that the rest of the world needs that life-force. No harm intended. Despite her troublesome gardening urges being stopped forcibly, she would have failed regardless, due to not realising that the body under the tree was infact her own, and that there was no waiting spirit locked within after all. It's implied that she would have to knowingly destroy her current self to succeed in the resurrection.
One examples of a Touhou villain that bucks the trend a little, but retains a degree of innocent motivation, is Utsuho. A "Yatagarasu" (Hell raven) who as the pet of one of the keepers of a no longer active section of hell, has the job of keeping the hell fires burning (by stoking it with evil spirits, of course). Since the part of hell she lives in is essentially forgotten and "not in business", she is more or less redundant and depressed by it. When a mysterious god visits to grant her an incredible power that could relight the fires with ease, she gets a bit too excited, and decides that "burn everything!" including the entire surface world, would be a great way to show off this new power and impress/gain the favour of her mistress/owner.
So she doesn't (intend to) burn down the world out of malice, but rather an eagerness to impress her friends and rediscover a lost sense of purpose.
The closest antagonist to being a real "evil" villain, is a bored celestial who literally begins starting disasters and brewing an apocalyptic earthquake, purely as a means of attention seeking and entertainment, despite knowing full well (and hoping) that lots of people will show up intending to stop her games and punish her. Even despite the no shits given attitude, it's evident that she never really was aiming for total calamity, but was still going to make people fight to prevent it. Describing her as a masochistic troll with too much power and spare time on her hands might be more accurate than truly evil. The conclusion to her story doesn't involve tea this time, but instead booze, peaches, and helping to rebuild the protagonists house that she destroyed for the lulz.
Kusanagi
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Re: Favourite Villain(s)
I'm sure if I sit down and give it some thought, I can come up with a better one, but right now the villain that's stuck in my mind is Handsome Jack from Borderlands 2. I love how cheery he is throughout the game (up 'til, well, those who've played it know), yet I have never wanted to murder an antagonist as much as I've wanted to murder Jack.
Oh, and obligatory Vader/Bowser/Kahn/anyoneTimCurryhasplayed here.
Oh, and that smoke demon from NIHM. That bastard gave me nightmares when I was young
I'm sure if I sit down and give it some thought, I can come up with a better one, but right now the villain that's stuck in my mind is Handsome Jack from Borderlands 2. I love how cheery he is throughout the game (up 'til, well, those who've played it know), yet I have never wanted to murder an antagonist as much as I've wanted to murder Jack.
Oh, and obligatory Vader/Bowser/Kahn/anyoneTimCurryhasplayed here.
Oh, and that smoke demon from NIHM. That bastard gave me nightmares when I was young