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Zephyrion

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

B. Tentacles are parasites, they are sentient parasites that can feel love and desire, but parasites none the less. The damage they inflict to civilization, through killing, destruction and brainwashing and the long term consequences of killing most of the male population far outweigh the pleasure, long life and Power that they can provide.

Longevity doesn't mean much if you don't have the free will to really make use of it.
 

4access69

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

Heh... I told you :p

Here are the choices we had in the last move, sorted from best to worst:

1. Free adversaries, continue alone (paragon, stay a true hero)
2. Kill adversaries, continue alone (renegade, become a monster to kill monsters)
3. Free adversaries, continue with a traitor (path of a coward, ridden with guilt and doubts)

And of course, you fell for the worst choice because you didn't think.

Now we cannot avoid the consequences of (thankfully not mine) previous vote.

If we had let them go and went through the birth alone we would just do what was requested from us with the creature in exchange for our freedom and we could maybe call upon it sometimes to help us out given the chance.

If we killed the pricesses we would still go alone since Zoey would see that she can't reason with us and leave us alone.

Now we can either get enslaved or kill the creature but be ridden by guilt because now we already have feelings for it.

Also, do not forget in your haste to kill the thing that there will probably be retaliation for not holding up our part of the deal with Olivia who after all did save us from a much bigger threat of delivering a black tentacle.

In my opinion both choices are totally fucked up and there should be option C so that is how I am going to vote:
C Snap out of it, smack Zoey across her sniveling face, ask her to draw you a map and mark lairs on it, then tell her to get lost. Honor your part of the deal with Olivia, and then go kill some overlords.
 
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plmnko

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

Indeed, i preffer this third option, we must let the creature alive but not for our emotions but for Olivia help and in some way in this way we will avoid any trauma. Also the little hit will make Zoey to understand than we will never get away of our path and than Ella is not a monster than kill what is in her path, maybe Ella must Smack Zoey twice.
 

censuur

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

Doesn't that imply that they're wholly evil? Considering what they sacrifice to gain that power?

While its obvious you don't want us hurting Zoey, she is undeniable a major threat to us (mentally, at the very least) and the simple fact that she will willingly spawn more tentacles, knowing full well what they do to people (and remember people, rape is bad mkay) she is intentionally assisting evil, that means she's no longer just a victim, she's now a perpetrator, there is no doubt that if we let her go she will return to a lair and breed more tentacles of her own free will, creating more enemies and causing more victims.

Like I said before, no one "deserves" to die, but sometimes you have to end the life of one to say many, you keep insisting Zoey is harmless, but then follow it up by listing the harms she has caused (spawning hundreds of rape-beasts, assisting in and attempting to mentally subverting those that resist their fate, which is just as bad if not worse than rape)

Let me state this clearly, destroying someone's mind by breaking their personality is a fate similar to death, what she was trying to do to Elle would have killed her, leaving a submissive husk of a human being, I'd prefer getting raped, at least that doesn't necessarily cause permanent damage.

This isn't about killing Zoey because she is evil, this is about killing Zoey because she will cause the deaths of countless others, willingly or not, this is about protecting our species, which is on the verge of being reduced to husks that serve only to breed and feed tentacles.



Also consider, in her current state Zoey's happiness relies on the tentacles, which, assuming we succeed in killing them all, would be permanently denied, what place is there for her in the world we are trying to create? Aren't we doing her a favor by killing her body before we destroy her mind, forcing her to watch us destroy countless of her "children" which she clearly cares for (which would equate to torture)

If you have a chicken coop, and one of your chickens goes berserk due to some disease and starts attacking the others, do you let it go because it's clearly a victim to the disease and can't help it, or do you save the other chickens from being hurt/killed/infected? The answer, while the choice itself is "unfair" is simple, you take out the sick chicken, if you can't cure it death is the only answer, if you can't take it out without killing it, death is the only answer. You can't cure Zoey, you can't disable her from harming others (intentional or not, victim or not) and this, killing her is the only option.

You do make a fair point in saying that there are tons more people like Zoey, and asking if we'd go about killing all of them as well. The answer, if you ask me, is once again simple; If they're a threat to humanity and our goals, yes.
 
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censuur

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

Heh... I told you :p

Here are the choices we had in the last move, sorted from best to worst:

1. Free adversaries, continue alone (paragon, stay a true hero)
2. Kill adversaries, continue alone (renegade, become a monster to kill monsters)
3. Free adversaries, continue with a traitor (path of a coward, ridden with guilt and doubts)
I take objection to that, there is nothing monstrous about killing the princesses like I stated many times before, it would be monstrous if we killed them for personal gain or pleasure, we would have killed them only because they were threatening us, and would continue to do so, in no way was it anything more than self-defense, the responsibility is always on the assailant, and humanity in no way started all of this.

C Snap out of it, smack Zoey across her sniveling face, ask her to draw you a map and mark lairs on it, then tell her to get lost. Honor your part of the deal with Olivia, and then go kill some overlords.
Why on earth would we honor our deal with Olivia, we never consented to carrying this egg and were essentially fooled into accepting it, sure it was trading one evil for a lesser one, but that in no way makes us obliged to anything, Olivia raped us just as much as black did, just because she was more gentle about it doesn't oblige is to honor her wishes. Olivia already stated we wouldn't meet again, so screw her and her wishes, and how would we rid the world of tentacle domination if we just let them trick us like that?


I can't press this enough, but we will NEVER save humanity if we are unable to make the hard choices, this isn't some fairy tale where we all shake hands and live happily ever after, there are two outcomes here:

1. All of humanity will be reduced to nothing but breeding/feeding husks
2. The tentacles are battered into submission

They will throw every manipulative trick they have at us, and have proven to be extremely manipulative, we will never succeed unless we are firm in our resolve, we have been extremely weak before letting two prime evils (princesses) just walk away to RAPE, MURDER, TORTURE any number of people, not to mention threaten our very existence, we either take a firm stance now or we will never win, just look at how close we are to losing already, we have the option straight up to just surrender our very existence to the tentacles , for them to do with us whatever they want with us (despite hating them thoroughly).
 
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NekoTerra

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

I was actuly thinking the same thing has 4access69 on this one. Both option A and B are the most extremes of kill them all and give up our quest and has Zoey has said humans might not be able to survive anymore without the tenticles, lack of males to repopulate, black and purple made sure of that. The freed slaves also probably would not know how to get food anymore.

If our mission is to save humanity from being slaves to the tenticles maybe there is another way then blindly attacking them all, Ella has witnessed blue and black fight so maybe she could try communicating with with the newborn blue. Maybe there is a way to get freedom without running around keeping the kill everything attitude.

I have to say, not to kill the baby blue, but leave it behind or agree to take it with you if it agrees not to rape anyone and keep to your mission to free humans, or go with how 4access69 put it.
 

dorl

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

A tentacle slayer with a pet tentacle. Now I've seen it all.

Why are you insisting on trying to communicate with a race of monsters that enslaved humanity and wiped from the face of earth 99% of males without any pardon is beyond me.
 

censuur

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

Co-existing with the tentacles is not an option, attempting this equals giving up, you cannot co-exist with something that feeds on you, they don't kill humans physically, but they kill them mentally (which is arguably worse, if you believe in the concept of the "soul" as this traps the soul in the body with no chance of the afterlife, which presence is somewhat verified by the divine intervention hammer we received)

People keep insisting we barter with the tentacles somehow, but to barter we must first have something to offer, and we don't, and we won't have anything to offer them but humans, are you really willing to sell off your fellow man rather than attempt to fight to the end?

This is not compromise, this is surrender.

Worse still, this is lying to yourself to make surrender an acceptable offer, anyone in the world Elle lives in that thinks co-existing with tentacles is an option is deluding themselves to the hard truth that co-existing with these things means selling the minds of their victims to the tentacles.

Look, I'm being rather curt with my responses here, I could write several pages of reasons why the last option A was horrible and the current option A equals suicide, why sparing tentacles is ridiculous (it's foolish to believe they will leave us alone, and they need humans to feed so they won't just stop) and letting those that aid them walk free equals surrender. If you can't make the hard choice to do what you must for freedom of your very species, give up now, you either commit to the struggle or give up, you don't have the luxury of a disney ending here.

These creatures don't simply rape and breed women, that would be somewhat acceptable, some women might even go along with it willingly, the problem is that these creatures kill the minds of their victims, twisting them to their will (read chapter two again and just look at what happens to Olivia, how she was described to be before meeting lazuli and how cruel she became afterward, she was no longer the same person, Olivia had died at that point, her very being corrupted beyond recognition)
 
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Minerve

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

A tentacle slayer with a pet tentacle. Now I've seen it all.
No, Ella won't need any gode now ... Yeah, that's surely a good idea !

@4access69 : Do you really need to take people for asses each time you talk 'bout them ? What's the matter ? People have voted something else, yes ; maybe it was a bad idea, yes ; are you better than them for that, absolutely not. You're in society, make some efforts, please.
 

censuur

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

No, Ella won't need any gode now ... Yeah, that's surely a good idea !

@4access69 : Do you really need to take people for asses each time you talk 'bout them ? What's the matter ? People have voted something else, yes ; maybe it was a bad idea, yes ; are you better than them for that, absolutely not. You're in society, make some efforts, please.
If someone makes a huge mistake and you don't, yes, in that regard that makes you better then them, how else would you define being better than someone?

What he said is pretty much fact, the choice for A, in character, was incredibly stupid, unbelievably stupid, how would we possibly destroy all the overlords without defeating at least several princesses, and I don't think we're in any position to simply knock them out when it comes down to it, picking A equalled surrender, which after picking the fighter character out of the entire selection is so extremely contradictory its nothing but utterly stupid. but again, that's only assuming people were making the decision in character, I assume there were plenty of people voting just to get Elle horribly raped or because they felt the tentacles should ultimately win.

Again, in character, this was an entirely stupid decision, you fight for over a year only to submit when you get an edge? Insane!

In terms of the people voting though, he never said anything about being them stupid (though they very well might be, and some certainly are) people who honestly voted A with the intent to submit being the ones not stupid, people arguing A was anything but submission being utter fools {incapable of}(this part right here is a conversation technique called a hyperbole, an exaggeration used to emphasize a point, not insult) simple coherent logic (and I even offered plenty of that on a platter, so it's not as if the information wasn't out there)

Now back to you, you're the one that jumped to conclusions, accusing 4access69 of thinking he is better than others based off a single post, going to far as telling him what he should be doing instead of what you perceive him to be doing, missing quite a few steps in the intellectual process of "perceiving, processing, verification (you missed this one), action, reflection, reaction" missing the most important step in assuring you're properly understanding the situation before acting on it.
 
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Minerve

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

If someone makes a huge mistake and you don't, yes, in that regard that makes you better then them, how else would you define being better than someone?
... Nothing more to add :( . Maybe that I am too much "naive" afterall. But thinking that we are better than the others 'cause we're asses ourselves is a fuckin' big mistake : everybody is an ass, is stupid and doesn't know anything. I'm not intelligent, i'm not really able to do many stuff, i'm not an artist, a writer, a designer but fuck ! Because you've got a QI > 140 or just 'cause your smarter than me, that you write a CYAO ou that you "make the right choices", you're really better than the others ? Who told you that it was the "right" or the "bad" choice ? It was a choice and it's done, it's over now : we can't go back and tell to other people that they are fuckin' dick.

In france, we've got a quote for that : "Notre liberté s'arrête où commence celle des autres." (Our freedom ends where the others' begins) You ain't (and i'm talking to 4access69 and to all the psycho in the room [psycho always think that they're better than the others]) better than all the guys who voted A. Maybe that you want to kill some people "IRL" so, you voted B ; the others wouldn't kill anybody "IRL", so they voted A. And so ? Nothing. Maybe that the character should have killed these two women, yeah (I voted B, 'cause i believe that she should). But it's still a false and irreal character and if she's an ass, it doesn't matter 'cause she ain't exist but if you bother (you or me or everybody else) somebody, event on the "web" (a place that doesn't exist) you'll be an ass in the real world too. You should not annoy anybody 'cause it's not fair.

Let the people be and think as they want, as long as they don't bother you (and don't tell me that choosing something else that what you choose is bothering you).

(yeah, I know, maybe that i'm a kind of "care bear" but fuck : I would rather be a fuckin' "care bear" than a fuckin' "Bateman-like" who see only himself [i'd rather be a nail than a hammer, for the Simon&Garfunkel's lovers])
 

censuur

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

Minerve, you worry to much mate

Opinions differ, they conflict, people might think they're better than you, will call you and the things you do stupid or foolish. Stupidity really is a loose term, it depends on perspective, I personally believe intelligence is the ability to recognize contradictions, which is the tool we (humanity) use to determine fact from fiction.

If you see something that you think is wrong, the first step is to imagine how someone would think that it's right, unless you understand someone, you will never be able to properly interact with them, and just throw up conflicts that lead to both sides rejecting the other.

Stupidity would be the inability to realize contradictions, but stupidity is a relative term, compared to a toddler anyone can be considered smart, compared to (I really hesitate and hate to say this, I'll explain later) a genius like myself, the majority of humanity can be called utterly stupid

Superiority as a concept is utterly flawed, you can never know who is better than someone simply because there are too many aspects to consider, and considering them would be a waste of your existence.

Let me explain what I mentioned before; out of thousands of tested individuals I've proven myself to be very far above average, and I've always considered myself to be fairly stupid, it came to me a shock that the majority of people were even worse than I was, which is a very depressing realization. It's also commonly known that intelligent people are incredibly prone to depression, while we may be better capable of discerning what is "correct" from what is "false" our ability to right wrongs is no better than average, realizing wrongs does not empower you to make things right, and intelligence is arguable more a burden than a boon, your very existence only has value due to its interactions, if you never interacted with anything, changed nothing, you might as well not have existed, if you're intelligent but there is no one capable of understanding you, a large part of your existence is essentially wasted. What I'm saying is that your "value" also in terms of better or worse, is decided by your amount of interactions (I won't give you my full essay on the meaning of life, I'll at least spare you that) and considering that something like that is pretty much immeasurable, attaching individual value to an immeasurable amount of interactions is utter folly, there's little difference between 100.000.000 interactions and 999.994.341 interactions anyway ;p

Imagine a world where no-one but you had eyes, would that make you better than them? Despite buildings not having lights and all of society would be designed to accommodate being blind, rather than being able to see. You could tell people what you see, but they wouldn't believe you, they wouldn't understand what "seeing" is because its not something they know.

Back to intelligence, if someone more intelligent than you realizes something that you don't, can't, understand, what is the point if he cannot communicate it, if you have an entity that is all-knowing, but can't do anything, is there any purpose behind that?

In the scope of society, being a genius in terms of intelligence is nothing to brag about, its a waste, pointless, Albert Einstein was a genius, and this theories led to some of the most pointless inventions humanity has ever made, simply because they couldn't understand much more than the simple bits (seriously, the A-bomb is the dumbest weapon you could possibly design)

Anyway, sorry about the rant, I really need to stop now before I really get going, I'll leave with this: You yourself are the only one that decides what is valuable and what isn't, that counts for everyone, and thus no one will hold the same values, thinking too much about what others value and how they measure what is valuable and what isn't is a waste of time ;)
 
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4access69

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

@Minerve:

We are making decisions here not for ourselves but in the name of the character we are role-playing -- those decisions should be from her point of view, not your or mine.

That said, I personally wouldn't kill the princesses, Ella would and that is all that matters. You have to become one with the character and act upon her will based on what you know about her, not impose your own will, ethics and morals on her by voting what she wouldn't do if she were an actual person in that situation.

So, am I better than you as a person? Maybe I am not, maybe you have higher morals and ethics than I do, I leave that to others to decide.

But, in the context of role-playing Ella's character I AM better.

Go back through the pages and check my votes -- almost every time people voted differently than what I have suggested (with a few exceptions when I was joking) Elle got severely fucked up because of their bad choice.

Votes so far were actually so bad that Serifyn had to introduce Deus Ex Machina to help the main character out of the hopeless situation, and people managed to fuck up that one too by chosing to accept Zoey's company and get Ella into big trouble again just because they don't understand her character.

Anyway, we got divine intervention. If that deity thought that blue tentacle inside of Ella should have been destroyed, it could have done that when it empowered her. Obviously, whatever is protecting Ella is doing so because in their eyes she is a martyr -- she is sacrificing herself (by being raped, carrying that egg like Jesus carried his cross, not backing out of a deal even if it wasn't a good one), unselfishly trying to save other people, and is going through all that alone.

Once any of those three elements are lost (by killing princesses, by killing the blue spawn, by accepting company) Ella will lose her martyr status (and maybe divine favor) and become one of numerous selfish simpletons who are only capable of looking for themselves. That is why current two choices both suck and why I voted C. Hope it is clear now, and sorry for the long post.
 
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Sinfulwolf

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

Take the arguments to PMs. I'd rather not have these CYOA's cluttered for people who just want to read through them, as it severely hampers the pacing of a story.
 

censuur

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

You assume an awful lot there mate, none of it backed by anything coherent, you claim to understand the workings of our holy boon, while there is absolutely no information regarding it, for all you know we were given the weapon to cleanse the church from the sacrilege of the tentacle princesses

One thing you can be sure of though, is that whoever gave us that weapon supports our fight against the tentacles (why else give us a weapon?) and as such its utterly stupid to assume it wants us to spare any tentacle (and really, what you're suggesting is nothing short of discrimination, be very proud of that one) I can understand killing humans would be against the weapons intended purpose (it appears to give a human divine favor, so I'd assume it supports humanity) and might disappear if used against a human, or it simply wouldn't affect a human (it used to be a different shape, who says it wouldn't just pass through an innocent human being eh?)

You keep suggesting that our deal with blue was somehow sacred and should be honored, even though it was forced on us against our will, you claim to speak from an understanding of the character, who hates tentacles but should somehow let their spawn roam free just because they had it implanted in her? That she should honor some "deal" with them just because she was forced to take it?

The choices here aren't "how do we move forward and remain a Disney super hero that sacrifices nothing while saving the world" our choices are:

"surrender" meaning we stop killing tentacles
and
"fight" meaning we continue to kill any and all tentacles

If we let this "child" walk away imagine meeting it again in the future, raping someone, what do we do then? Still let it walk away? Are we truly sacrificing its potential victims because of a deal with a monster that has raped and destroyed hundreds if not thousands of lives?

It's people like you that I really can't stand, making an extremely out of character assessment while claiming to act like that character, you try to force an option that simply isn't there, not for the character (hell, letting Zoey live shouldn't honestly be an option if defeating tentacles is our goal)

What you are saying we should do is run away, you run away from the choice of fighting for humanity, you run away from humanities fate because of your inaction, you don't decide a goal and stop deciding altogether, you're too weak to commit to the fight, but too cowardly to stop fighting, in short, pathetic (my opinion).
 
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4access69

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

That she should honor some "deal" with them just because she was forced to take it?
Jesus also didn't have a choice but to endure for the sake of everyone else whom he was saving, that is all I am going to say. If you are smart you will understand what I mean.

If we let this "child" walk away imagine meeting it again in the future, raping someone, what do we do then? Still let it walk away? Are we truly sacrificing its potential victims because of a deal with a monster that has raped and destroyed hundreds if not thousands of lives?
You say I am assuming a lot, but why do you assume that her "child" will be the same as the other tentacles? What if the only way to bring hope for humanity survival is to breed a new tentacle race which understands humans and is not driven by its own selfish animal interests?

you run away from the choice of fighting for humanity
Bad choice has already been made by letting the princesses go and accepting Zoey's company and visions.

I voted to kill the princesses but then I realized that leaving them and continuing alone was the right way and I have changed my vote before voting was concluded.

You really can't blame me for running away from the fight, because both of the options I voted for in the previous round were to continue fighting alone.

If people didn't vote to go with Zoey we wouldn't even have an option to stop fighting.
 

censuur

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

Your choice, your responsibility. I don't think I have to add anything more to that list of excuses you put up, not only do you run away from making a choice, but you also run away from the responsibility of that being your choice.

As for the child, its not the first tentacle spawn, so its fairly obvious what it will do, not much assumption there, other than assuming an existing pattern won't just stop because it'd be nice for it to happen so that you can have your disney end.

For the sake of the argument, lets analyze the information on deities in this series so far;

First, lets assume that the first sign of divinity in the series was the white panties in the first story (this is an assumption until Serifyn verifies it wasn't just a white-tentacle item, so you can consider this point as speculation) For as far as we can tell this item protected us from the creatures in a very violent manner (burning up the creatures where it touched them) However, it was eventually "corrupted" which seems to imply holy relics are not immune to corruption. This point reinforces the divinity theory of this item, as the blue "queen" at the time mentioned the item losing a lot of power, which didn't happen for the other items that were changed, meaning there was something different about this.

Second, Xozz's story on the origin of tentacles, while a dubious source, we have to work with what we've got if we go making theories, and Xozz explains that the tentacles were created by some sort of divine being to become the natural predator for humans, to restore some sort of balance that was apparently lost. That would imply that the divinity wants some sort of balance, which means complete eradication of the tentacles would be improbable, if not impossible, though keep in mind Elle doesn't know this. This means that in terms of divine help, we have a lot of killing to do before losing this favor, and the idea of a god discriminating between its creations is so laughably ridiculous its not actually funny anymore, so it shouldn't care which tentacles we kill, or which means we employ to restore balance (after all, its own means to restore balance was rather harsh, so I don't expect this sort of divinity to be the disney kind)

Last we have what we're currently wielding, the divine hammer. On analysis it's a rather dubious weapon, as we've concluded that blunt weapons are rather weak against tentacles (also slow to use which makes it rather silly in fights where the enemy approaches from many different angles) the shape of the weapon implies it was for use against humanoid foes and objects (implies, not proves) and the enemy in front of us was "humanoid", do the math. Despite the weapon being a poor choice and hard to use against our enemies, the princesses, despite outnumbering us and not caring for each others safety, feared it to the point of inaction, implying some sort of "radiance" in effect (really, what stopped them from just incapacitating her arm and taking the hammer away otherwise, at most she'd get one swing before losing) The fact that it's taken outside the church means it's not bound to that as a location, and it's current existence seems to imply that it has not yet fulfilled its purpose.

Your argument is based on the fact that it's with us as long as "god" favors us, but god gave us a weapon with no instructions as to its use, wouldn't a being that can give us such a weapon be able to instruct us as to what it does or doesn't want us to do with it, no matter how I look at it, just handing someone a weapon is like saying "here, use this however you want"
 
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Serifyn

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

Option C has been added as a compromise; more on that soon.

These are end of chapter decisions and dictate the way Ella views the world and how other characters like her will proceed.

In Option A, you are basically surrendering yourself in exchange for a life of tentacle enslavement; why would this be an option you choose? perhaps you are tired of fighting and would like to be reunited with your mother. Zoey's vision of life appeals to you and she can perhaps become your friend as you navigate the world of tentacles, you'll meet women who have become enslaved themselves and become antiquated with them, though you are a now a slave, you will continue to make choices which will effect the lair you are enslaved in.

In Option B, You are solidifying your hatred for everything tentacle, including your own 'child'. With option B you choose to kill something innocent which loves you like a mother; simply because of what it is. With this option you will choose to continue your quest travelling from land to land and killing the Overlords. Your primary objective is to destroy all of the tentacles and rescue humanity.

In Option C, you become disillusioned with your original quest, having felt the love from your 'child' you are confused. You will take 'Ethan' into the forest and do some soul-searching. Perhaps you can raise Ethan to be different than the other tentacles, if nothing else, you'll learn whether the nature of tentacles can be changed. It is a new world, and a hard stance on tentacles is difficult. perhaps learning more about their nature will help you come to a conclusion on whether you should resume your quest to exterminate them later on.

Adjust your Votes accordingly.
 
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xgkf

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Re: Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse

B.
 
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