ACT Abandoned [The Zeta Team] Project X: Love Potion Disaster (Latest Build: "NExT" 2019-01-29)

[Kyrieru]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

Not surre if it has been mentioned earlier, but SEGA L.D. also took down the Streets Of Rage Remake, though they did it too late.
It's probably some angry guy from SEGA that likes to take down things.

No, it's just a company protecting it's IPs. If at some point Sega wanted to release a remake themselves, an existing remake could make a new one less profitable. That's just business. What impact would a remake have if there was already one the year before?

The bottom line is, it's their IP and they have the right to do with it what they please. It just comes off as anti-consumer because they're taking away something we want, and it's something they themselves haven't given us yet.

 

[CrazyPerson]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

The nasty thing about IP, from what I recall:
You must protect it, or it dilutes in value. You can't selectively enforce it.

What this means, if you decide to sue someone for "your product has my brand/IP in it",
they can counter with "but so does that other thing, and you're not suing them, so it can't be that important to you".

So in order for a brand to actually be worth anything,
a company actually HAS to actively go out and sue everyone they are obviously aware of.

Yay for bullshit legal systems...

 

[Kyrieru]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

The nasty thing about IP, from what I recall:
You must protect it, or it dilutes in value. You can't selectively enforce it.

What this means, if you decide to sue someone for "your product has my brand/IP in it",
they can counter with "but so does that other thing, and you're not suing them, so it can't be that important to you".

So in order for a brand to actually be worth anything,
a company actually HAS to actively go out and sue everyone they are obviously aware of.

Yay for bullshit legal systems...

Pretty much.

Apparently on Youtube, certain companies give Youtube data that enables them to make copyright claims for that very reason, but then they just don't follow up on any of it because it's all they have to do to protect their copyright. It happens a lot with game companies that don't want to discourage let's plays and the like.

 

[Anon_Ymous]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

One thing i was wandering about is...did the Sonic IP actually add anything to the game? I mean...if they made original characters instead, would that make it less appealing? Me, I would enjoy the combat and the sprite sex regardless so..what about you guys?

 

[jur07dbe]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

One thing i was wandering about is...did the Sonic IP actually add anything to the game? I mean...if they made original characters instead, would that make it less appealing? Me, I would enjoy the combat and the sprite sex regardless so..what about you guys?

the sonic character makes the game tbh. I think it would be less appealing to most

 

[Fenril]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

@KyrierU: I don't think you fully understand the meaning of parody.

A parody doesn't have to involve humor. All it has to be is an original work based on an official work in order to be a parody.

 

[urielmanx7]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

@KyrierU: I don't think you fully understand the meaning of parody.

A parody doesn't have to involve humor. All it has to be is an original work based on an official work in order to be a parody.

I think he does pretty well:

Definition of parody in English
"noun (plural; parodies)
an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect:
-the film is a parody of the horror genre-
[mass; noun]:
his provocative use of parody.
An imitation or version of something that falls far short of the real thing; a travesty:
-he gave her a parody of a smile-
verb (parodies, parodying, parodied)
[with object]
produce a humorously exaggerated imitation of (a writer, artist, or genre):
his speciality was parodying schoolgirl fiction
mimic humorously:
he parodied his friend’s voice"

Taken from:

You must be registered to see the links

Always make sure you're right before correcting someone else, or don't get mad when you're the one corrected (and yes, it applies to me as well)

Back to topic, I don't see why anyone is complaining, everyone knows that videogames are a business, and as such, the same laws applies to them as to any other form of copyrighted product. Everyone is just mad because you fear they will take away your free porn and don't see the big picture. I'm sure Zeta and Neoeclipse knew that the possibility of having trouble with SEGA for using the chars like that, but one often feels so little to the big companies, plus there's the anonymous feeling the net gives you, so it's easy to do such things, thinking they won't even bother with you, if anything, I think this was a good thing, because it shows how popular the game is, bad or good, it's publicity nonetheless, now PX will be forever known as "that Sonic hentai game SEGA tried to put down but didn't" Last thing I heard from Pen is that they backed up, so things are normal, but they will still want to wait a bit to make sure.

The only thing here, is that at least SEGA of Japan is aware of it now, we don't know if they will continue watching them or not, but it's a call to be careful form now on.

 

[FruitSmoothie]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

I think he does pretty well:

Definition of parody in English
"noun (plural; parodies)
an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect:
-the film is a parody of the horror genre-
[mass; noun]:
his provocative use of parody.
An imitation or version of something that falls far short of the real thing; a travesty:
-he gave her a parody of a smile-
verb (parodies, parodying, parodied)
[with object]
produce a humorously exaggerated imitation of (a writer, artist, or genre):
his speciality was parodying schoolgirl fiction
mimic humorously:
he parodied his friend’s voice"

Taken from:

You must be registered to see the links

I lol'd though.

What bothers me the most is the morale issues with using someones character's and work without their permission. But of course everybody creating "parodies" and quoting "fair use" have an excuse for that as well: "I'm trying to help them get more attention/profits", etc, etc. Why is it that hard to just say: "I like this character/art/artist so I'm using their work without the artists permissions because I'm a dick"? If you wanted to help the artist, you would have asked them how you could help them. I see this so often it's almost funny. I mean of course you can't do that with a big company like Sega, but everybody has already talked about that here.

As somebody said earlier, if you're going to use copyrighted characters, you should be prepared to be asked to be shut down your game at any moment. It's just not a good plan for a long term project. It's like begging to be forced to lose years of work. How can you even get upset about it? You have to know it could be coming.

 

[ombre vengeresse]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

A parody doesn't have to involve humor. All it has to be is an original work based on an official work in order to be a parody.

No, I do not agree with you.
parody = humor

 

[Kyrieru]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

@Fenril

"based off" is vague. If you mean an imitation or alteration, then yes, a parody can be imitation. Thus why "Blonic" is fine.

If by "based off" you mean using someone else's intellectual property as-is, such as characters, in your own game, then no. You can't just make "Sega Golf" and expect to be able to sell it.

 

[textbook703]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

The bottom line is, it's their IP and they have the right to do with it what they please. It just comes off as anti-consumer because they're taking away something we want, and it's something they themselves haven't given us yet.

It comes off as anti-consumer because it is exactly the definition of anti-consumer.

The tangible gains (ie. royalties) from shutting down a fan project like Project X, are laughably small.
The intangible gains (ie. the abstract devaluation of the IP as a result of Project X's existence, and the theoretical value derived from shutting it down) are barely even recognizable. I don't see Sega releasing a pornographic remake of Sonic the Hedgehog anytime soon. I also don't see any (non-trivial) potential for an attack on Sega's reputability as a result of Project X, as Sega could pretty effortlessly distance themselves from a fan game, should the need arise.

The potential economic gains from Sega attacking Project X are nominal.

Corporate legal teams that crush niche fan projects like this, remind me of that kid on the playground that screeched if you touched the ball he had left alone for the preceding 20 minutes. "I WAS GOING TO PLAY WITH THAT." No, Sega will never utilize this tiny niche. Hyper-aggressive legal departments just need something to do. They'll gladly stomp out a hobbyist's years-in-the-making master stroke, if it means they can write "maybe we theoretically reduced the rate of brand depreciation, which is sort of like making money?" on a balance sheet somewhere.

EDIT: Honestly, I don't want to get into an economics debate here, so I'm going to try and simplify what I said. Ultimately, Sega is knowingly crushing a great deal of 'happiness' (positive energy? Smile Force?), in order to maybe gain abstract value on their property (ie. equity) after an inordinate amount of time has passed. They're kicking someone in the dick today, to maybe give a nickel to a group of exceptionally wealth individuals, a decade from now. It's selfishness, dissipated by a lack of accountability that enables a lack of empathy. It's despicable.

 

[Kyrieru]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

It comes off as anti-consumer because it is exactly the definition of anti-consumer.

The tangible gains (ie. royalties) from shutting down a fan project like Project X, are laughably small.
The intangible gains (ie. the abstract devaluation of the IP as a result of Project X's existence, and the theoretical value derived from shutting it down) are barely even recognizable. I don't see Sega releasing a pornographic remake of Sonic the Hedgehog anytime soon. I also don't see any (non-trivial) potential for an attack on Sega's reputability as a result of Project X, as Sega could pretty effortlessly distance themselves from a fan game, should the need arise.

The potential economic gains from Sega attacking Project X are nominal.

Corporate legal teams that crush niche fan projects like this, remind me of that kid on the playground that screeched if you touched the ball he had left alone for the preceding 20 minutes. "I WAS GOING TO PLAY WITH THAT." No, Sega will never utilize this tiny niche. Hyper-aggressive legal departments just need something to do. They'll gladly stomp out a hobbyist's years-in-the-making master stroke, if it means they can write "maybe we theoretically reduced the rate of brand depreciation, which is sort of like making money?" on a balance sheet somewhere.

EDIT: Honestly, I don't want to get into an economics debate here, so I'm going to try and simplify what I said. Ultimately, Sega is knowingly crushing a great deal of 'happiness' (positive energy? Smile Force?), in order to maybe gain abstract value on their property (ie. equity) after an inordinate amount of time has passed. They're kicking someone in the dick today, to maybe give a nickel to a group of exceptionally wealth individuals, a decade from now. It's selfishness, dissipated by a lack of accountability that enables a lack of empathy. It's despicable.

To use your ball analogy..

If I own a ball, it's irrelevant whether or not I'm currently using it. I own it. The fact that I'm not using it doesn't mean that people can just come in and use it for whatever they want. Sure, I could let other people use it, but what if they ruin it?

Or, say the ball get's thrown through someone's window, who's going to get the blame for it? IE, when a parent finds "Sonic rape porn" on an underage kid's PC, do you want some big misleading witch hunt against your company that started with something you had nothing to do with?

And beyond that, some people just don't want their products associated with certain things. For instance, I wouldn't care if someone made adult fan art of Kurovadis, but I would be pretty pissed off if someone was using my character to say, propagate racism and bigotry. A porn game seems like nothing to us because we're fine with it, but I know there are a lot of creators that would hate the idea of their work being used in a way that goes against their beliefs, and it means much more to them then a number on a spreadsheet.

 

[golwas]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

If Sega cares so much about their Sonic IP's reputation then why did they release Sonic 06'?

 

[Papanomics]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

If Sega cares so much about their Sonic IP's reputation then why did they release Sonic 06'?

That's beside the point. Their property is their property.

 

[golwas]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

lol that was strictly a joke.

 

[Kyrieru]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

If Sega cares so much about their Sonic IP's reputation then why did they release Sonic 06'?

Well joke or not, let's say your company is at risk of going under because your developers have spent a lot of time and money developing a game, and the game is nowhere near ready. Which of the following decisions do you make as the one in charge,

1. Force the developers to rush out the terrible game in time for christmas, in turn making enough money for everyone to keep there jobs and develop more games.

2. Don't release the game, go under, fire everyone.

Obviously it probably wasn't so drastic as this, but as much as we like to think that everyone at the top only cares about money and is out to get the consumer, it's not always the case. Sometimes people have to make compromises they don't want to make. (Though that's not to say there aren't idiots in charge a lot of the time)

 

[golwas]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

Unless that sole decision saved Sega from bankruptcy then yeah it was a slimy business decision. I don't know if you've played Sonic 06' but the game is not bad, it's broken. It barely functions and yet Sega had the audacity to put a $60 dollar price tag on it and sell it to the public. Sega fucked up and tried to make the consumers pay for it and I just can't respect that.

 

[Ryka]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

I do not think sega had a hand in this.

 

[Kyrieru]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

@golwas:

Played it, no, watched the entire Game Grumps series of episodes on it...what is my life.

Also they didn't "try" to make the consumers pay for it, they did. The game sold very well despite how awful it was. Whether you respect it or not, it may have been the correct "business" decision. To us it seems dirty, but to someone who just saved the jobs of people with families to support, they probably wouldn't be losing any sleep over it.

Again, though, this is all just hypothetical devil's advocate speak for "We can never really know the circumstances, so don't just come to the worst conclusions"

 

[golwas]

Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013

Lol Game Grumps, I love that shit. Well, maybe not as much now that Jon's left the show.

I don't think I'm coming to the wrong conclusions rather were both choosing to look at this from different perspectives, mine from the consumers' and yours from Sega's. I appreciate not selling Sonic 06' could have been financially ruinous while someone wasting 60 bucks on it is hardly the end of the world but still, it's very consumer unfriendly.