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[Poolka] Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven


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willaberhaben

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I think this info might interest a lot of you:
Poolka is back and has posted a new game!
For those of you that don't know Poolka: Creator of the original Slave Maker, Sim Brothel, Henthighschool games.

The original thread where he posted:

And the download link for 1.1:
 
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noman

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

I don't have an account for that forum so I can't see the thread/post. Can you please give us more details about the game?
 
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willaberhaben

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

Sure. Here the the description from Poolka:

In this game, you're a guardian angel supervising the life of a girl in a medieval/fantastic world.
You can control her however you want, except you can't go against her free will and make her do things she doesn't want.
She will be able to do many jobs like waitress, politician, priestess, prostitute, ... Each job coming with some kind of mini-game.





I'd say you can see it as a mix of Slave Maker and Henthighschool.





Currently, the game is not at its full potential but i'm the kind of guy that grow bored easily and i'm tired of working on this game for now. So i'm going to give you the game in its current form and will most likely give the source code away later to let better developpers than i turn it into something great, like it's been done with my older games. (Congrats and thanks to all of you that worked on them.)

I don't have many ways to share the game, so please take it and share it with whoever would like to play
 

StrikaR

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

It's worth a playthrough.... some things are really annoying though. If you are a dumb politician (without any intelligence points or so, which will always happen if you behave like a slut :O) there is a high chance to get sold into slavery.... anyway it was still fun but some random elements keep destroying the fun like beeing "scarred" which caps your max. charisma.

Anyway play it guys it's still a good game.
 

AExMachina

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

The whore job seems kinda crappy to start with, you never get any gold from customers so your pimp always beats you up every day. And the waitress minigame gets old fast even with high intelligence.
 

remi555

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

I like this game, waiting for updates =)
 

noman

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

It's worth a playthrough.... some things are really annoying though. If you are a dumb politician (without any intelligence points or so, which will always happen if you behave like a slut :O) there is a high chance to get sold into slavery....
I have a feeling that doesn't happen by accident...

The whore job seems kinda crappy to start with, you never get any gold from customers so your pimp always beats you up every day. And the waitress minigame gets old fast even with high intelligence.
Sounds realistic. Too realistic.
 

Nimrod

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

Best job to start with seems the priestess, you get a steady income and all kind of bonuses from praying.

This game is too random tho.
 

stuntcock42

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

I like this game, waiting for updates =)
Poolka has already declared that he's bored with it. The character-attribute system (which seems to model NPCs using the same data structures as the PC) is good, but the UI is rudimentary and the underlying simulation (demography/politics) is either too simplistic or poorly tuned -- it feels very random during gameplay. I'll take a look at the source code, but I expect that this particular project won't attract much additional development or modding.

One major problem is that the author's previous games have been focused on long (or indefinite) play sessions. This game's narrative framing device (Guardian Angel) theoretically makes it appropriate for very short sessions. In theory, you might play through a few weeks of one girl's life, then get bored and switch to another girl for a few weeks, then switch back, etc... But the lack of save/load (or a persistent game-world) prevents this. And I'd argue that the 100-turn limit is bad; it's too long for "casual" gameplay, but not long enough to satisfy the "completionist" player who wants to get 100% in every skill and feel like a total badass.

The game also doesn't really use its framing device in gameplay - the Guardian Angel itself never gains any experience or abilities, and the girl herself is the player character for all intents and purposes. Progress occurs as the player masters the game mechanics (and unlocks additional cities by satisfying arbitrary checks).

The focus on social mores and politics is interesting, though, because it can potentially support a huge variety of playstyles. Imagine that you're dropped into a prudish society and you want to turn it into a hedonist paradise:
  • be a normal politician in the majority party; work your way up the ranks within your party; deliberately sabotage your party's campaign work so that the opposition party wins elections; opposition party enacts sexy reforms
  • be a street prostitute; flaunt the public-decency laws; get arrested frequently, but escape or bribe your way out of prison; people get upset that the government can't deal with your filthy ass; people overthrow government
  • be a merchant; become wealthy; bribe politicians for favourable laws (eg. slavery); use slaves to become even more wealthy; bribe politicians for sexy laws
  • be a sorceress; venture out into the dangerous forest to gather ingredients for spells and potions; fill everyone's minds with sex until they're running naked through the streets; everyone votes for libertine candidates
  • setup a secret brothel; hire/train an excellent staff; attract a few powerful politicians and fulfill their personal fantasies; they change the laws on their own initiative
    • oh shit - now everybody is opening up brothels! You don't need to pay off the guards anymore, but you need to deal with competition :(
  • the populace is already pro-sex but the city is ruled by conservative nobles; become a courtesan and infiltrate high society; do seduction-intrigue-blackmail stuff for a while; shatter the aristocratic powerbase (or take control of it from the shadows?)
  • build up popular support to invade a nearby nation; lots of conservative citizens volunteer for the army; change the laws while they're off fighting

The challenge is "how do you make the political system complex enough to provide challenge and replay-value, without being so opaque that its outcomes seem completely random?"
 
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willaberhaben

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

Poolka has already declared that he's bored with it. The character-attribute system (which seems to model NPCs using the same data structures as the PC) is good, but the UI is rudimentary and the underlying simulation (demography/politics) is either too simplistic or poorly tuned -- it feels very random during gameplay. I'll take a look at the source code, but I expect that this particular project won't attract much additional development or modding.

One major problem is that the author's previous games have been focused on long (or indefinite) play sessions. This game's narrative framing device (Guardian Angel) theoretically makes it appropriate for very short sessions. In theory, you might play through a few weeks of one girl's life, then get bored and switch to another girl for a few weeks, then switch back, etc... But the lack of save/load (or a persistent game-world) prevents this. And I'd argue that the 100-turn limit is bad; it's too long for "casual" gameplay, but not long enough to satisfy the "completionist" player who wants to get 100% in every skill and feel like a total badass.

The game also doesn't really use its framing device in gameplay - the Guardian Angel itself never gains any experience or abilities, and the girl herself is the player character for all intents and purposes. Progress occurs as the player masters the game mechanics (and unlocks additional cities by satisfying arbitrary checks).

The focus on social mores and politics is interesting, though, because it can potentially support a huge variety of playstyles. Imagine that you're dropped into a prudish society and you want to turn it into a hedonist paradise:
  • be a normal politician in the majority party; work your way up the ranks within your party; deliberately sabotage your party's campaign work so that the opposition party wins elections; opposition party enacts sexy reforms
  • be a street prostitute; flaunt the public-decency laws; get arrested frequently, but escape or bribe your way out of prison; people get upset that the government can't deal with your filthy ass; people overthrow government
  • be a merchant; become wealthy; bribe politicians for favourable laws (eg. slavery); use slaves to become even more wealthy; bribe politicians for sexy laws
  • be a sorceress; venture out into the dangerous forest to gather ingredients for spells and potions; fill everyone's minds with sex until they're running naked through the streets; everyone votes for libertine candidates
  • setup a secret brothel; hire/train an excellent staff; attract a few powerful politicians and fulfill their personal fantasies; they change the laws on their own initiative
    • oh shit - now everybody is opening up brothels! You don't need to pay off the guards anymore, but you need to deal with competition :(
  • the populace is already pro-sex but the city is ruled by conservative nobles; become a courtesan and infiltrate high society; do seduction-intrigue-blackmail stuff for a while; shatter the aristocratic powerbase (or take control of it from the shadows?)
  • build up popular support to invade a nearby nation; lots of conservative citizens volunteer for the army; change the laws while they're off fighting

The challenge is "how do you make the political system complex enough to provide challenge and replay-value, without being so opaque that its outcomes seem completely random?"
Pretty good analysis.
I think that the basic idea could spawn a few decent spin offs though.
  • Reduce the randomness.
  • Give a couple rewards/ boni you can buy for your score after each game (for example auto win mingames after you reached a certain in game stat)
  • And add you good easy way to add new events/ scenarios
With that I think it would move towards a lot fairer gameplay and would actually work a lot better long term too. I really hope that someone will try to improve it. The idea is again wonderfull and it has some really nice features but those are currently a bit overshadowed by the flaws.
 

NaoSoul

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

Oh wow. A great hero of H-games has returned. Downloading this game right now to take a look.
 

AllenAndArth

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

i managed to create a society where, pubic sex is normal, slavery valuable for society as is prostitution and got all of the upgrades even the red light district on... want to know how? be a waitress, this game is addictive
 

neocon1

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

Is there a way to save lol
 

NaoSoul

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

Is there a way to save lol
No. Personally, I think that the save feature would take away a lot from the game as people could just savescum their way out of problems and not have to deal with any consequence for any mistakes or to get out desired outcomes.
 

dienow

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

Be a waitress. Window printscreen their order. Get everything right, always. Use rumors to do whatever you damn well please.

The only thing better is merchant. I use merchant to bump slavery down to "NEIN! IST VERBOTEN!" The only danger is getting imprisoned for bribery.

Also, how the hell do you win debates? My characters just get destroyed no matter what.
 
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AllenAndArth

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

i actually managed to work as a whore *0*
it's frigging difficult though...you have to click on the looking for clients button to toggle it on and walk around, if you get lucky, you find a client then the game puts you in a mini-game where you have to change positions according to what the client wants, every position has a different set of movements, like missionary is up, up, up and doggy style is up, up, down...it's hard, or maybe i just suck at these kind of mini-games
 

AExMachina

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

Also, how the hell do you win debates? My characters just get destroyed no matter what.
I won some debates early on but the when I went politician again later on in the same game I was still hitting for the same 14 and my opponent then hit me for 143. Think there's some weird scaling going on where the debate opponents get better, or maybe it is just plain buggy.
 

stuntcock42

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

The code is irredeemable dogshit.

It's full of hardcoding. And the hardcoding isn't even based on constants or enumerations; it's all magic numbers. 95% of the application logic is defined in the UI codebehind files; the few standalone classes are basically just oversized Structs. C# has excellent support for generic collections, but Poolka has instead used arrays for everything. Inline documentation is non-existent (not an exaggeration - the only comment lines are two autogenerated ones, both of which are in French). Inheritance and polymorphism are absent; the design makes no real allowances for modding or extensibility. Nothing is defined in external files (e.g. XML), so any change (such as adding another girl, renaming an NPC, or altering the price of a potion) requires a full recompile. Collaborative development is a no-go until the whole codebase is refactored, and the rewrite would almost certainly be a solo endeavour.

The initialization code for the event array makes me want to cry and vomit simultaneously.

Even the goddamned image filepaths are hardcoded. And Pooolka has setup a cryptography subsystem which hides the images (so that players can't peek at them and discover spoilers such as "this game includes futanari") which just makes everything harder to debug and makes modding totally infeasible.

The object-initialization logic, and the memory structure, are poorly suited for Save/Load operations. File access operations are unguarded, so any renamed file (or typos in a hardcoded filepath) can potentially crash the game.

The design of the Events is reasonable (prerequisites and antirequisites), but the implementation is lousy. And the fact that the Event definitions are hardcoded makes them worthless.

Disappointment. I had hoped that the random behaviour of the political system was because of bugs; it's not. The political system is just fundamentally shallow and it relies almost entirely on RNG. Citizens are randomly-generated immediately before the vote (why not generate them at the start of the election season?) and their preferences are distributed based on demographic statistics without affinity patterns (you can easily get a voter with "religious" + "pervert"). You know how you can make a specific Promise during each election campaign...? The game doesn't even try to check whether you've followed through on those promises; it just immediately gives you +5 popularity with the appropriate group.

Tooltips are applied to buttons in codebehind. Okay, somebody stop this crazy train because I need to get the fuck off.

---------------------

If anyone is seriously interested in pushing this thing forward, then we might as well start over with a new spec (e.g. "keep the politics and the jobs, but eliminate the stupid minigames"). Modernizing the code (and then adapting it to the new requirements AND THEN fixing all of the bugs in the original code) would take more effort than simply writing new code with proper programming techniques.

We'd also need to consider the platform. I like C# and I use it professionally, but it's harder to debug and extend than some alternatives (e.g. Python, Ruby, ActionScript) and its advantages (netcode, performance optimization, large-collection operations) probably wouldn't be relevant to this project.

---------------------

Just in case anyone wants to explore the game as-is... I've attached a data.cfg file with everything unlocked. Rename data.txt to data.cfg and copy-paste it into your game folder.
 

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NaoSoul

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

The code is irredeemable dogshit.

It's full of hardcoding. And the hardcoding isn't even based on constants or enumerations; it's all magic numbers. 95% of the application logic is defined in the UI codebehind files; the few standalone classes are basically just oversized Structs. C# has excellent support for generic collections, but Poolka has instead used arrays for everything. Inline documentation is non-existent (not an exaggeration - the only comment lines are two autogenerated ones, both of which are in French). Inheritance and polymorphism are absent; the design makes no real allowances for modding or extensibility. Nothing is defined in external files (e.g. XML), so any change (such as adding another girl, renaming an NPC, or altering the price of a potion) requires a full recompile. Collaborative development is a no-go until the whole codebase is refactored, and the rewrite would almost certainly be a solo endeavour.

The initialization code for the event array makes me want to cry and vomit simultaneously.

Even the goddamned image filepaths are hardcoded. And Pooolka has setup a cryptography subsystem which hides the images (so that players can't peek at them and discover spoilers such as "this game includes futanari") which just makes everything harder to debug and makes modding totally infeasible.

The object-initialization logic, and the memory structure, are poorly suited for Save/Load operations. File access operations are unguarded, so any renamed file (or typos in a hardcoded filepath) can potentially crash the game.

The design of the Events is reasonable (prerequisites and antirequisites), but the implementation is lousy. And the fact that the Event definitions are hardcoded makes them worthless.

Disappointment. I had hoped that the random behaviour of the political system was because of bugs; it's not. The political system is just fundamentally shallow and it relies almost entirely on RNG. Citizens are randomly-generated immediately before the vote (why not generate them at the start of the election season?) and their preferences are distributed based on demographic statistics without affinity patterns (you can easily get a voter with "religious" + "pervert"). You know how you can make a specific Promise during each election campaign...? The game doesn't even try to check whether you've followed through on those promises; it just immediately gives you +5 popularity with the appropriate group.

Tooltips are applied to buttons in codebehind. Okay, somebody stop this crazy train because I need to get the fuck off.

---------------------

If anyone is seriously interested in pushing this thing forward, then we might as well start over with a new spec (e.g. "keep the politics and the jobs, but eliminate the stupid minigames"). Modernizing the code (and then adapting it to the new requirements AND THEN fixing all of the bugs in the original code) would take more effort than simply writing new code with proper programming techniques.

We'd also need to consider the platform. I like C# and I use it professionally, but it's harder to debug and extend than some alternatives (e.g. Python, Ruby, ActionScript) and its advantages (netcode, performance optimization, large-collection operations) probably wouldn't be relevant to this project.

---------------------

Just in case anyone wants to explore the game as-is... I've attached a data.cfg file with everything unlocked. Rename data.txt to data.cfg and copy-paste it into your game folder.
As said before, it's time for me to disappear again, i'm going to stop working on Seventh Heaven.
If any of you want to take it and upgrade it, feel free to do so.
Here is the source code, in C#:

And to correct a mistake i did:
Here is the source code of the original Sim Brothel:
And the source code of the original Henthighschool:

I hope that someone will be able to use them and make something nice out of them.

See you some day, maybe.
Polka posted the codes for his previous games too at FutanariPalace.
 

JAB

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Re: Newsflash: Poolka has a new game: Seventh Heaven

Just in case anyone wants to explore the game as-is... I've attached a data.cfg file with everything unlocked. Rename data.txt to data.cfg and copy-paste it into your game folder.
I have but HP stops working. Help!
 
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