Re: [Fullflap] [RJ134809] Demon's Sperm
Wow, thanks for the personal assault there buddy. I never said that the game is bad in any way. If you read my post, and the first one I made, you'd see quite the opposite. I'm talking about preference here. I would prefer "rape" to actually be rape. I don't really like that you're rewarded for being caught. It's dumb if you ask me. But it's just my opinion, and my preference. And no, RoR is not bad in design at all. That's YOUR opinion. There is no "right" in this question whatsoever. You're expressing your opinion, not an objective truth.
For the record, I never personally assaulted you. I said nothing insulting towards you in the slightest. I mentioned your name specifically because of comments like "Now that is just stupid and unfitting for the genre" and "RoR is simply a much better system than what he uses." The rest of your post may have been very clearly your opinion, but those two things in particular were phrased very factually.
Also, I'm not just expressing opinion. I'm viewing this objectively
as a designer, not "masking my opinion" with it. Sure, I won't lie and say RoR/GoR is my favorite style of H-game, but it doesn't bother me either. It's only when viewed from the perspective of game design that I'd start talking about how it's a fault system that doesn't make logical sense for its target audience. RoR/GoR, as a Hentai Game genre, is inherently flawed. It neither focuses on the hentai nor the game. Nothing with conflicting ideals like that can be considered successful design.
Whether or not it's fun or enjoyable is another matter entirely, and one which I was not even discussing.
@Hikikomori Gamer - You seem to have misinterpreted much of what I said. I never once said RoR/GoR was unsuccessful. It certainly is, considering the vast majority of H-games follow these principles. I was talking about it from a game design standpoint, and I stand by everything I said. For the record, 90% was not a literal number.
You guys keep throwing the term "opinion" at me like it invalidates my point, but it really doesn't. Study game design. Learn what makes a satisfying, cohesive experience. Then get back to me on why RoR/GoR is well designed. Your argument will be null and void at that point, because the entire point of a videogame - you know,
playing it - is nullified when your target audience needs to lose to get what they want to see.
Now, on to your specific points.
Let me reverse this at you by saying... is it not disconnecting from the game to go out of your way to seek out specific enemy and go out of your way to get grabbed by them, even more so than just have any enemy have a chance to rape you based on a simple and easy to achieve condition... especially when the enemies share the same models within the game? You're also going off into speaking about GoR (Game OVER Rape), not so much as RoR (Run or Rape), when mentioning you have to avoid gameover/porn in order to experience other scenes/porn... when it's not even the case with plenty of RoR games that allow you to freely enjoy being raped where sex and fighting is blended together seamlessly. I kinda want to also mention that some people get off to the idea of losing, but I don't think GoR is relevant in this discussion and will leave it at that.
No, it's not disconnecting to do that, because if you're designing a game with the INTENTION of sex being an element, then the rest of your game design will revolve around that ideal. You get Sperm for killing enemies or fucking them in this game, which immediately plants the seed in the player's mind that this is a beneficial thing for them. It makes them stronger. So the player naturally seeks this out as a means of forward progression. It doesn't become a disconnect because it's something the player wants to do, and they're progressing by doing it. It's literally the
exact opposite of a gameplay/hentai disconnect, it's a perfect fusion of them.
Again, though, the "90%" remark isn't a literal number. Games have pulled off the RoR style properly. But just as many of them have done it badly, too.
I don't think it's really relevant if sex is mark of success or failure, both have their proper place and neither is superiour over the other outside of taste of the player. If it's integrated properly, it's completely irrelevant in long run. Also look at VH community that has become greatly discontended when the sexual scenes slowly stopped being a mark of failure and instead became more and more something of a reward for success... people started to lose interest and found that the game lost its original charm as a result. I mean god bless the community for still working on the game, but I am using it as example because there really IS no right answer for using sex as either mark of success or failure.
I don't think it's right at all to say that it's not relevant. In one case, it's a reward. In the other, it's supposed to be a punishment - but it's not, really. Losing becomes a goal rather than progression, if you're rewarded for dying. It's contradictory. Whether someone LIKES it that way is another question entirely, but it's not good design.
You are simply saying that something is bad because it's not part of your preference while hiding under the fact that you're a game designer. Is it really fair to say that the genre is bad simply because you're not the intended audience for it?
Who said I wasn't the audience for it? I want to see some pixel porn just as much as the next guy. That's why I pick up H-games and play them. That means I'm not the intended audience?
I'd
really appreciate it if the whole "your opinion" nonsense would stop. It's not opinion. Even if I loved RoR/GoR style, that doesn't mean I can't look at it objectively and point out faults in its design. I
love the Kingdom Hearts series, but it's got a ridiculous amount of filler content, inconsistent facial animation quality, and a contrived, overly complicated plot. My opinion on it, being one of my favorite series' of all time, doesn't change the fact that it has flaws in its design. Same exact thing with RoR/GoR H-games.
EDIT: Sorry, didn't see your edit before posting.
I praised Kyerieru's games because they have great art and gameplay. I still think the hentai was very much shoehorned in there, it has no relevance to the gameplay, and I'm not disputing that. And again, I think I could have handled Crisis Point better in terms of incorporating the H to it. But I'm not going to suddenly shift it 180 degrees when I'm this far into development, I'm just making the best out of the situation I have and fixing it for my next game. Either way, the fact that Crisis Point is a mash of genres doesn't invalidate the fact that RoR in general is just that. If you're going to say they're all just mash-ups to get perverts attracted, then you can literally say the exact same thing about every single game that has ever had porn in it.
Also, I'd like to point out that not every game with porn has to have your MC getting raped. The most logical idea, from a game design perspective, would be a character that goes out of his/her way to have sex with people intentionally to progress, rather than a game that asks you to let yourself be raped so you can move forward.
Now, in the interest of getting more "high horse" and "opinion" comments, let me say: You can feel however you want about RoR, RaR, GoR, or any other genre I don't know about. I'm not telling anyone to stop liking it, and I never implied anything of the sort. If you enjoy it, more power to you. It doesn't kill me to see a game with RoR/GoR tendencies, but as a designer I can't honestly defend those design decisions. On the contrary, I felt the need to defend THIS game's decision to make porn a reward for progression, because it just plain makes sense. When people play an H game, they obviously want to see some pixellated action, or they would just play a normal game - so, understanding your player's intentions, you reward them for playing the game well. You don't even have to explain the goal to the player, they know what it is because it's something they legitimately desire.
