[WIP - Full] Virgin's Protection Magic Translation (v 0.82 released 23/07/2017)

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

iamnuff said:

Link to working audio file for anyone who needs it.

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Oh, someone beat me to it.
Oh well xD

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

Bloddyhell said:

It did the same thing to me, I am quite sure if it is stuck on 99% it has finished patching. Check the folder for the game if there is a new folder for the translated game there. If not I am not sure.

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It does slow down when it hits 90% so don't worry about that. But as of V4.35, it will progress to 100% when it is able to. At that point, it will replace "Patching Game" under the progress bar with "Finished".

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

Sayathing11 said:

Oh, someone beat me to it.
Oh well xD

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Looks like it got taken down already. I just hope whoever needed it managed to grab it.

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

Is this still being worked upon? there's been a while without any posts.

Also the quality of the translation so far blew me away (in many ways). that someone would take their time to translate a game like this for free is nothing short of Incredible.

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

It is still being worked on, but things got a bit slow for the last week. Without getting into too much detail, Britain has gone to a fairly dark place over the last week. Most likely due to the result of the Brexit referendum, there's been a large uptick in racist/antimmigrant incidents in addition to all of the political and economic chaos. that ensued from that As to how that effects me, I'm the child of an immigrant and may be out of a job come October.

So yeah, that meant for the last week I've mostly been thinking about other things.

For progress in general, the is a pretty good place to check. It lists all of the commits I make to the patch, although you can't necessarily trust the dates/time of the commit (as that gets set to when I push it to Assembla).

My current plan is to release a new version when I have translated enough H-events to push the patch to 70% completion. It currently sits at 61%, because H-events are fairly arduous to translate. After that the next release will be once the story/towns are complete, and then a final everything complete version after that.

Oh, and I normally don't ask for help on things, but maybe it's worth a shot here. One bit I can't make head or tail of is the following line, which Brigit says when perusing a H-book about a slime monster.

うわぁ、頭悪すぎてＳＡＮ値が削られそう……。
しかも、第１巻って、こんなの続刊出てるんだ……。
ていうか、なんでこんな本がこんなところに？

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The last two lines I understand (about how this is the first volume of a series, and 'why is this book here?'), but I can't figure out the first one. Given that I know the tone (the last part is said in big font) I'd say I can probably guess something to fit (exclamation at the inappropriateness of the book as it's found in a church with an orphanage attached), and most likely no-one will care about that, but any takers for providing a proper translation here?

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

habisain said:

The last two lines I understand (about how this is the first volume of a series, and 'why is this book here?'), but I can't figure out the first one. Given that I know the tone (the last part is said in big font) I'd say I can probably guess something to fit (exclamation at the inappropriateness of the book as it's found in a church with an orphanage attached), and most likely no-one will care about that, but any takers for providing a proper translation here?

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From what I can tell via dictionaries, it's a Call of Cthulhu RPG reference, where she's talking about losing SAN-points. It's kind of a thing in CoC that reading certain books or acquiring certain types of knowledge will negatively impact your sanity.

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

Crispin said:

From what I can tell via dictionaries, it's a Call of Cthulhu RPG reference, where she's talking about losing SAN-points. It's kind of a thing in CoC that reading certain books or acquiring certain types of knowledge will negatively impact your sanity.

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Good grief. That's obscure. No wonder I didn't get it; I'm only really knowledgeable about mythologies.

I may modify that reference to be just vaguely lovecraftian/cosmic horror in general, rather than to a specific RPG rule set.

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

Never heard "roll for SAN loss" before?



I've seen reference to it in the most unexpected places as a punchline to someone seeing something that cannot be unseen or having a really disturbing thought (naked Donald Trump!) put in their head. One of them was even in an anime, not sure which (NGNL?).

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

Yeah, I actually haven't heard that phrase before. I know a fair amount of Lovecraftian Mythos, but not so many Lovecraftian games. I have been meaning to pick up a copy of Eldritch Horror at some point. Maybe I'd have worked it out after getting that game.

Point is I'm not sure how common this particular reference is, and I don't think it sounds particularly good either. So I'm more comfortable translating it along the lines of "This book... Just knowing it exists is sapping my sanity! Some things were not meant to be known! What has been seen cannot be unseen!" rather than "I.. I need to roll for SAN loss!". Exact wording/verbosity to be determined later, but I think going along the lines of the former sounds better than the latter. I mean, it's not often in the games script I have the opportunity for Brigit to rave like a cultist driven insane by witnessing the unknowable.

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

habisain said:

Yeah, I actually haven't heard that phrase before. I know a fair amount of Lovecraftian Mythos, but not so many Lovecraftian games. I have been meaning to pick up a copy of Eldritch Horror at some point. Maybe I'd have worked it out after getting that game.

Point is I'm not sure how common this particular reference is, and I don't think it sounds particularly good either. So I'm more comfortable translating it along the lines of "This book... Just knowing it exists is sapping my sanity! Some things were not meant to be known! What has been seen cannot be unseen!" rather than "I.. I need to roll for SAN loss!". Exact wording/verbosity to be determined later, but I think going along the lines of the former sounds better than the latter. I mean, it's not often in the games script I have the opportunity for Brigit to rave like a cultist driven insane by witnessing the unknowable.

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I'd leave it in since it was almost certainly written as a deliberate reference to those types of games.

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

Nope, not gonna fly. I'm exercising editorial judgement here, and I'm not leaving that reference in. I've made posts on this before, but I am firmly on the localisation side of the translation vs localisation debate, and that means that if I feel a particular reference isn't going to work, it goes. My belief is that it makes for a better translation overall if the translator exercises a little editorial judgement.

For reference, I've made a lot of other changes to the script as well for similarly minor things. For example, correcting the Celtic Goddess's roles or fixing the mythological terms used in the Cŵn Annwn's story. And of course the major one, changing Kuro-chan to Sooty (in the next release, obviously). Not everyone will be happy with the changes, sure. But as far as I'm concerned the matter is closed. I'll ask for advice when I feel it useful, but ultimately, I'm running this translation project as a dictator .

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

habisain said:

Yeah, I actually haven't heard that phrase before. I know a fair amount of Lovecraftian Mythos, but not so many Lovecraftian games. I have been meaning to pick up a copy of Eldritch Horror at some point. Maybe I'd have worked it out after getting that game.

Point is I'm not sure how common this particular reference is, and I don't think it sounds particularly good either. So I'm more comfortable translating it along the lines of "This book... Just knowing it exists is sapping my sanity! Some things were not meant to be known! What has been seen cannot be unseen!" rather than "I.. I need to roll for SAN loss!". Exact wording/verbosity to be determined later, but I think going along the lines of the former sounds better than the latter. I mean, it's not often in the games script I have the opportunity for Brigit to rave like a cultist driven insane by witnessing the unknowable.

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I lean towards the first, as I'm a bigger fan of immersion over 4th wall type stuff (are pop culture references considered 4th wall?). As always, I'd go with your gut. At this point, you probably know the game better than anyone outside the original developer, so I'd trust your decision.

I'm so glad you're still plugging away at this. This will be a great one to get translated!

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

habisain said:

I am firmly on the localisation side of the translation vs localisation debate, and that means that if I feel a particular reference isn't going to work, it goes.

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Localisation/translation is about changing idioms and sayings to better make sense in the new language.

"San Damage" already works in English because it was English to start with. The fact that you didn't get the reference is because you aren't familiar with the subject being referenced. (culuthu-esque P&P games) Not because it's some obscure Japanese thing that you need to dumb-down for us.

I mean, you can change it if you want, it doesn't have any real impact on the story but don't act like you're rewriting some obscure Japanese metaphor or wordplay to not be nonsense when you remove the cultural context.

changing Kuro-chan to Sooty

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I'll be honest. That sounds way worse. And it's not just some random book on a shelf either, it's the name of an important character.
I get that you're removing Japanese context from it but Sooty just doesn't look good. If he was white then snowball or something would be fine.

Midnight maybe? Or just Blackie? (which is probably closest to kuro-chan anyway)

For the most part though, I agree localisation is fine. So long as you aren't turning riceballs into jelly donuts or something.

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

Localisation would also take into account the likelihood of an average person knowing about a reference, regardless of where it originally came from, as well as how the text reads in the target language. "Roll for SAN damage" fails on both of these tests, especially in comparison with the alternative texts.

Go through the thread if you want to see the debate regarding changing Kuro-chan's name. Blackie was originally my thought on it, but for me it didn't sound right - bluntly, Blackie does not sound humiliating/cutesy enough for Felengel to hate the name as much as he does. Sooty does. If you don't like my choice, I remind you I run this project as a dictatorship, and I consider this matter closed.

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

habisain said:

Point is I'm not sure how common this particular reference is, and I don't think it sounds particularly good either. So I'm more comfortable translating it along the lines of "This book... Just knowing it exists is sapping my sanity! Some things were not meant to be known! What has been seen cannot be unseen!"

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That's pretty much exactly what "roll for SAN loss" means, so I have no complaints.

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

うわぁ、頭悪すぎてＳＡＮ値が削られそう……。
しかも、第１巻って、こんなの続刊出てるんだ……。
ていうか、なんでこんな本がこんなところに？

Whoaa, this is so mindnumbingly stupid, I'm starting to feel my sanity slipping away...
And it's just the first volume, what, do they have a whole series out there...
—wait, what the heck IS a book like this doing here?

Edit: Chapter -> Volume

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

The above looks great. If you want to keep the reference in you could change the first line to something like "Whoaa, this is so mindnumbingly stupid I think I lost some SAN points..."

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

Localisation would also take into account the likelihood of an average person knowing about a reference, regardless of where it originally came from, as well as how the text reads in the target language.

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Not really. If that's the case they you could remove any reference to anything from anything under the guise of "someone might not get it." It reads perfectly well in it's target language (English) because it was an English phrase to start with. We're no less likely to understand it than the intended target audience playing the original Japanese version.

I understand changing things around so you don't need an understanding of Japanese culture to make sense of it, but removing references to movies or games because someone 'might not get it' is going a little too far.

I mean, the line itself has a totally negligible effect on the game so it doesn't really matter in this case, but the principle of removing shout-outs to other works because you yourself aren't familiar with said work just feels wrong. If it was some obscure Japanese thing that English players can't be expected to 'get' then I'd understand it. But it's not. We're not less likely to get it because we speak English. If anything, we might be more.

If you want to remove it because it doesn't fit in-universe and you don't want something that impacts the fourth-wall as Yummytiger said, then I can totally understand that. It's not so much the fact that you want to change is, as why you said you wanted to change it.

As for the cat. "Blackie" sounds sorta juvenile and childish, which I assume is what they were going for with Kuro-chan.
To be perfectly frank though, sooty just doesn't look like a word to me. Or rather, it looks less like a word than 'blackie'

As for you running this as a dictatorship... It's not like I'm asking you to take a vote or something, you use whatever you want to use, but if I manage to change your mind then the fact that you have the only vote that counts works in my favour.

I mean, it doesn't look like it's working, but I wanted to try anyway.

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

Crispin said:

The above looks great. If you want to keep the reference in you could change the first line to something like "Whoaa, this is so mindnumbingly stupid I think I lost some SAN points..."

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Or just "Sanity points". This way, you keep the reference for people knowing about it, and people who doesn't can still understand it.

Re: Virgin's Protection Magic Translation

Keyen said:

Or just "Sanity points". This way, you keep the reference for people knowing about it, and people who doesn't can still understand it.

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Well, if you want an ambivalent sentence that can be taken both ways (leaning on the fourth wall without outright breaking it, so as to speak), something like "Whoaa, this is mindnumbingly stupid enough for me to start taking sanity damage..." could work.

iamnuff said:

Not really. If that's the case they you could remove any reference to anything from anything under the guise of "someone might not get it." It reads perfectly well in it's target language (English) because it was an English phrase to start with. We're no less likely to understand it than the intended target audience playing the original Japanese version.

I understand changing things around so you don't need an understanding of Japanese culture to make sense of it, but removing references to movies or games because someone 'might not get it' is going a little too far.

I mean, the line itself has a totally negligible effect on the game so it doesn't really matter in this case, but the principle of removing shout-outs to other works because you yourself aren't familiar with said work just feels wrong. If it was some obscure Japanese thing that English players can't be expected to 'get' then I'd understand it. But it's not. We're not less likely to get it because we speak English. If anything, we might be more.

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The issue is that words, phrases, memes, etc. can have their meanings changed (especially the connotation part) when they're borrowed from one language into another.

Use of "getting SAN points shaved off", "SAN points are dropping", "SAN point crisis" and other similar phrases are somewhat 'genericized' on the Japanese interwebs (2ch, Niconico, Pixiv, etc.), and can be used to cover to WAT-inducing moments or just plain scary situations (like say, when-you-see-it-shit-bricks art, or say, Yandere Trance parodies). Not just Eldritch horrors, Lovecraftian or otherwise. Heck, some Japanese speakers on the Internet will even misspell it as "SUN points" because they're aren't even aware of the original reference.

When translating, it is important to not just to translate the literal meaning of the words, but also the underlying "sense" such that translation has an effect to the reader of the target language that is similar to that experienced by readers of the original text in the source language. This is very important when translating idiomatic expressions, including memes.

iamnuff said:

If you want to remove it because it doesn't fit in-universe and you don't want something that impacts the fourth-wall as Yummytiger said, then I can totally understand that. It's not so much the fact that you want to change is, as why you said you wanted to change it.

As for the cat. "Blackie" sounds sorta juvenile and childish, which I assume is what they were going for with Kuro-chan.
To be perfectly frank though, sooty just doesn't look like a word to me. Or rather, it looks less like a word than 'blackie'

As for you running this as a dictatorship... It's not like I'm asking you to take a vote or something, you use whatever you want to use, but if I manage to change your mind then the fact that you have the only vote that counts works in my favour.

I mean, it doesn't look like it's working, but I wanted to try anyway.

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Sooty is a common name for black cats in English (especially in the British Isles), mirroring the use of Kuro(-chan) in Japanese. Both can imply a certain lack of creativity on the part of the owners who came up with the name.

Blackie/Blacky WAS a common one as well, but its use became less common due to association with a certain derogatory slur.

habisain's use was quite spot on, really.