In today's news...

Re: In today's news...

The only thing WW2 taught me about War Crimes is that a War Crime is only something your enemies commit.

Bomber Harris ordering the RAF to firebomb Hamburg and Dresden, etc - fine
British concentration camps of the Boers in South Africa - fine
The USAF fire bombing Tokyo? Fine
The USAF dropping two a-bombs? Fine
The USAF napalming vietnamese villages? Also fine

Even Unspeakable Acts committed by your allies aren't war crimes.
NATO friendly Turkey's armenian genocide? Uhh, we won't mention that and suppress it from history.
Soviet's starving the Ukraine to death? Well... they're our friends against Hitler so we'll turn a blind eye to it - besides, everyone was dicking their annexed regions in the arse at the time.

Re: In today's news...

In other news...

A swede has gone into a school and stabbed some people.



The assailant is apparently a native Swede and the people he stabbed might've been immigrants.
So expect to hear about this for months whilst the crimes of in your local rag.

Re: In today's news...

-In an astounding number of cases, the Swedish courts have demonstrated sympathy for the rapists, and have acquitted suspects who have claimed that the girl wanted to have sex with six, seven or eight men.

Oh yeah I'm sure those bruises on her face and blood streaming down her legs, and being pumped full of alcohol against her will has nothing to do with rape. I heard about this happening in the UK, and my father refused to believe it having always remembered the at times arrogant and other times noble pride of british folks, I can hardly believe it myself that police would refuse to arrest perpetrators of such heinous acts. I can only think that there's some kind of conspiracy if this is happening not just in Britain but across Europe.

If the media is going to be one-sided and biased and people are going to carry on taking advantage, then they should be killed, obviously not in schools, but everywhere asides. It should escalate and normally law-abiding swedes should take up torches, pitchforks, and knives and clubs into the homes of rapers and instigators and seek vigilante justice. That's how we do it here, and if you don't retaliate and neither does the corrupt maggot infested system, then they will keep on doing it until they die. It's a catch-22 with only one sure solution, even if the perpetrators have guns they won't get away with firing them.

-Swedish men cannot handle increased equality between the sexes and react with violence against women

And that progressivists are trying to pin this on a western standard of "rape-culture" is probably even more disgusting, get a clue you fucking ignorant cunts.

Re: In today's news...

super_slicer said:

Well, I can't exactly agree with that. I mean, even IF it was solely about petty vengeance, I'd still be all for it, however there's something more at play.

It's about sending a message: That if you commit horrible acts, even during wartime, you WILL be found and punished. That there is no escape from justice, no matter how far you run or how long you hide, you must answer for your crimes against humanity.

Perhaps there are some people who think this might prevent such similar acts as those that occured during the holocaust from happening again. Or at least give officers that aren't completely brain-washed by their armies' propaganda pause before they turn on the gas.

I'm not nearly that optimistic, but then again I already said I'm all for petty vengeance. All I need to do is think, what if it was someone I loved who that octogenarian former nazi put a bullet through? Only one answer to that question.

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MrMe said:

The only thing WW2 taught me about War Crimes is that a War Crime is only something your enemies commit.

Bomber Harris ordering the RAF to firebomb Hamburg and Dresden, etc - fine
British concentration camps of the Boers in South Africa - fine
The USAF fire bombing Tokyo? Fine
The USAF dropping two a-bombs? Fine
The USAF napalming vietnamese villages? Also fine

Even Unspeakable Acts committed by your allies aren't war crimes.
NATO friendly Turkey's armenian genocide? Uhh, we won't mention that and suppress it from history.
Soviet's starving the Ukraine to death? Well... they're our friends against Hitler so we'll turn a blind eye to it - besides, everyone was dicking their annexed regions in the arse at the time.

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I can probably fill up a whole thread with examples for this, the only message being send here is "don't lose or we will hunt you all down and imprison you for life or worse"
Not even just the Allied atrocities in WW2(and other wars), just the occurrences of countries and organisations the US likes that nobody bats an eye at or go completely ignored. South American drug lords aided by the CIA shooting up local governments and cutting off heads, Saudis stoning people for daring to object to their regime or look into religions other than the state-mandated version of islam, Israel forcing more Palestinians out of their homes on a regular basis, Turkey bombing the kurds when they claim to bomb ISIS, Plenty of African governments fucking over their own population to support US-based corporations in their resource extraction, Qatar and Saudi Arabia violently suppressing protests, and so on and so forth.

The only message you can see here is "Hope you're with the winner, OR ELSE!". It's not about atrocities, because those are routinely ignored and everyone seems to be okay with that. In fact, it sends the opposite message. Do as the winner wants or you're going to be 'the enemy'. Returning soldiers may find themselves a 'potential domnestic terrorist', and you're on all the watchlists and won't be able to take a crap without the NSA shoving a camera up your bum to make sure you've not been eating any terrorism-inducing meals
That is, if you did something that the ones in power disagreed with. If you exposed an atrocity in progress then you're flat out a terrorist to them and you'll likely be hunted down


Also, yeah, that same media that's ignoring all of that is for some reason ignoring the immigrant-caused problems. At this point you'd be insane to NOT think they're following an agenda of some kind or taking orders from someone with an agenda

Re: In today's news...

The defense of superior orders was very specifically denied during the Nuremberg trials. If we start accepting it as a defense now, then we have to admit that those we tried were not guilty. Not only this, it sets a pretty fucking dangerous precedent too. Saying that even though you know what's wrong and what's right, and willfully ignored that, making the choice that your life was worth more than those of the non-combatants that you MURDERED, it's okay as long as someone up the command chain said to do it.

Let's not do the whole "If it was you behind the trigger" shitstorm, because I can guarantee you that I wouldn't be there. I will die before I EVER allow my will to be subjugated by another. I can rationalize complying with an officer of the law, by saying "It's so we're both safe, and can go along our merry way", but taking orders from some guy who has some extra stripes on his arm? Nope. Especially not to kill. For me the sense of self is more important than breathing. Lol, in fact threatening me is a good way to get me to not do what you want. And let's also skip the "reverse psychology" thing, that doesn't work either.

Who're we talking about here anyway? The guy that opened and closed the gate at the prison camps? Fuck it, let him get away. The guys operating the gas chambers or giving the orders to and shit like that are the ones I believe we're pursuing. If we still are at all? I actually don't know. How much money is too much to spend on this? How much was spent? How many nazis did they catch? How many didn't they catch? How much does each nazi cost to catch? Is this even being funded by governments or is it a private effort?

If your objection isn't solely on a monetary basis, but also on man-hours, how do you know this isn't what these people want to be doing? Maybe they'd just quit and find a different job if they were told they'd have to give up and go join the gang-unit.

As far as allied war crimes, I'm pretty sure most of them that anything was done about were taken care of by the military bodies within which those soldiers served, with court martials and the like. Though I imagine most of them were swept under the rug. I believe there was one guy who was dishonorably discharged and sentenced to prison time for killing something like 35 POWS in Italy. The Soviet Union technically couldn't commit any war crimes because they hadn't signed the Geneva convention at that time, but that is kind of a cheap way to get out of it.

I probably forgot to address something, but I'm hungry right now and need to go eat.

Re: In today's news...

This is a big post, so I'll cut it in bits for a reply

super_slicer said:

The defense of superior orders was very specifically denied during the Nuremberg trials. If we start accepting it as a defense now, then we have to admit that those we tried were not guilty. Not only this, it sets a pretty fucking dangerous precedent too. Saying that even though you know what's wrong and what's right, and willfully ignored that, making the choice that your life was worth more than those of the non-combatants that you MURDERED, it's okay as long as someone up the command chain said to do it.

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Nuremberg was a show trial, while what happened was shit and the people trailed were definitely not good people, the trial was mostly just for show. Many of the proofs and evidences used at it have later on been shown to be false(Jew-skin lampshades, human fat based soap, etc)
It's definitely not acceptable to just say "Orders are orders", I agree there. We're all ultimately responsible for our own actions, and if everyone said no, then it just plain wouldn't happen.

(More on being personally responsible),in fact threatening me is a good way to get me to not do what you want. And let's also skip the "reverse psychology" thing, that doesn't work either.

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Threatening me works the same, it gets me to not do it just because threats will never pay off. Sadly there are many people who can be manipulated or threatened into doing horrible things. And many who do them out of their own free will

Who're we talking about here anyway? The guy that opened and closed the gate at the prison camps? Fuck it, let him get away. The guys operating the gas chambers or giving the orders to and shit like that are the ones I believe we're pursuing. If we still are at all? I actually don't know. How much money is too much to spend on this? How much was spent? How many nazis did they catch? How many didn't they catch? How much does each nazi cost to catch? Is this even being funded by governments or is it a private effort?

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Generally the guy who opened or closed the prison gate, even a few administrative staff these days. Anyone really important has either disappeared without trace or has already been caught (Though rumours that Hitler lives in Argentine are always popping up every now and then). Or they've been given a job by the US/USSR to work for them, in the case of scientists who used the camps for their own experiments(And plenty of Japanese ones who used Chinese POWs as their subjects too)

Funding tends to come from private organisations as far as I am aware, and it tends to cost a LOT because the easy to catch ones have already been caught by now

If your objection isn't solely on a monetary basis, but also on man-hours, how do you know this isn't what these people want to be doing? Maybe they'd just quit and find a different job if they were told they'd have to give up and go join the gang-unit.

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I don't mind them doing it. I just think it's a waste of time and the media circus around it is bullshit. The important ones are dead or in prison, everyone moved on. It's time for the media to stop caring just like they stopped caring about other cause of the moment things(Kony 2012 anyone?)

As far as allied war crimes, I'm pretty sure most of them that anything was done about were taken care of by the military bodies within which those soldiers served, with court martials and the like. Though I imagine most of them were swept under the rug. I believe there was one guy who was dishonorably discharged and sentenced to prison time for killing something like 35 POWS in Italy. The Soviet Union technically couldn't commit any war crimes because they hadn't signed the Geneva convention at that time, but that is kind of a cheap way to get out of it.

I probably forgot to address something, but I'm hungry right now and need to go eat.

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Yeah, there are plenty who were court marshalled, but sadly some things(Such as putting the defeated German army in open fields and fencing them in so they wouldn't count as POWs but as 'disarmed combatants' and as such did not need to be given food or shelter according to the Geneva convention) were done by people higher up in the chain of command and as far as I know they were never really punished for it. As for others, The Japanese government at this point still that their country has committed war crimes, and was even given immunity for extremely horrific experiments.

It's all really messed up and... Wait, what was this about again?

Oh, right, news.


Portugal decides the people should not be allowed to choose their government. As the people voted to stop austerity, wage cuts, and tax raises that were forced on them by the EU. As such, the president has said he will ignore the election and the people and continue austerity because he believes he knows better

Re: In today's news...

Hrm, seems that with the size of Portugal, it'd be a hell of a lot easier for the people to just go out and lynch a politician for pulling this shit... not that I'm suggesting the portuguese do any such thing .

Edit: Ooops, forgot to respond to the other issue.

Thank you for the added context XSI, if that is indeed the situation that Cappy was arguing against I would like to remit my previous argument as it doesn't actually address it at all.

I would instead pose this argument: Being that they're privately funded organizations the word wastefull becomes very highly subjective given that at the end of the day there is always someone that thinks the things people who have more than them do with their wealth are wastefull.

Saying there are better uses for that money loses alot of weight as well, given that private citizens aren't obligated in any way to provide aid in the areas you suggested (or any other for that matter) outside of paying taxes. In addition I posit that the money in question, more than likely, still wouldn't go to anything beneficial if it weren't being used for this. Trying mentos and coke on the moon perhaps?

As far as media coverage is concerned... welcome to the 21st century, where the news is nothing but sensationalized lies and attention grabs. I'm not saying "Deal with it", but I'd like them to start telling me the whole truth first, and then work on exactly what stories they are covering. Priorities.

P.S. LoL While coming up with this counter, I thought "What if someone told me I was wasting my money, and should put it to better use helping other people?" as a way of putting myself in the accused' shoes. My knee-jerk response was "Mind your own fucking business". Unfortunately that can't apply here because the idiots are broadcasting it to everyone and their mother apparently (I haven't heard shit about this, but I tend to ignore a large amount of news because of the reasons in the previous paragraph).

Re: In today's news...

super_slicer said:

Hrm, seems that with the size of Portugal, it'd be a hell of a lot easier for the people to just go out and lynch a politician for pulling this shit... not that I'm suggesting the portuguese do any such thing .

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If they don't:
-Populist party #1 wins the elections by promising people tax reductions and better economy
-Populist party #1 quits after a month of doing nothing because "holy shit we can't fix this without taxing people"
-Populist party #2 wins the elections by promising people tax reductions and better economy

Etc. Battling this kind of crisis only works by using technocrats.

Re: In today's news...

super_slicer, all of your arguments of "I wouldn't do it in that situation." are all rendered inert by the simple fact that you were raised in a completely different environment. The moment you take into consideration group think, and cult tactics, something the Nazi German regime thrived on, I guarantee you, being raised in that environment would corrupt anyone and everyone.

You can only say that shit because you were raised with completely fucking different values, that would have been heralded as tantamount to heresy in the place were you believe people should have had the fictional "common decency" to stand up to. Looking at any group think experiments, done with objective none-emotional completely logical questions and answers, people found that people would choose the illogical incorrect answers out of an ingrained human instinct to fit in with the planted subjects who gave out red herring answers.

You can notice evidence of it in that groups have a collectively lower IQ than an individual, regardless of the IQ average that one would expect of the people involved. Which is why radicals leading a movement can rally up normally perfectly intelligent rationale people and get them to do utterly retarded or abhorrent shit, that they may even come to regret later. You can scream and shout, "I wouldn't do it!", but if you were raised in Germany at the time period, you fucking would have.

Re: In today's news...

OH MY, KING SHIT IS HERE TO TELL ME WHAT I WILL DO IN ANY GIVEN SITUATION! And he's using the deadly weapon of psychology, an infallible science! Well, for the most part, I mean it's not like mathematics, physics, or chemistry which are concrete i.e. 1+1=2 every time.

Let's, for a moment, ignore the fact that my 'problem with authority' and 'non-conformity' (seriously, I do NOT want to belong) are a very large part of my identity, and have been since I was old enough to have an identity.

While I don't actually know how long it was prevalent, let's say the Nazi mentality permeated German culture long enough for people to actually be born and come to age in Nazi Germany.

Since we've entered the realm of pop psychology; as you've already stated, we're all the product of both genetic predisposition and environmental factors as the current trend (Is it still current?) tells. Thus, I am only me if I lead the same life as I have. And miraculously I did in fact NOT grow up in Nazi Germany. So someone with my exact DNA, who was raised in Nazi Germany COULD NOT BE ME. Your statement defeats itself in it's opening.

And going one step further you ignore, rather blatantly I might add, the fact that there were many Germans who weren't Nazis (though not nearly enough I'm afraid). They ran, they hid, they kept to themselves, they were imprisoned and tortured, but they did not participate in the Nazi agenda. I guess you just forgot about them right? Or perhaps their existence doesn't support the point you are SO DESPERATELY trying to convince us of. Makes me think you have some skin in the game...

Re: In today's news...

super_slicer said:

(...)
And going one step further you ignore, rather blatantly I might add, the fact that there were many Germans who weren't Nazis (though not nearly enough I'm afraid). They ran, they hid, they kept to themselves, they were imprisoned and tortured, but they did not participate in the Nazi agenda. I guess you just forgot about them right? Or perhaps their existence doesn't support the point you are SO DESPERATELY trying to convince us of.

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Not taking sides here, but there were in fact many nazis. They and their families ran to among other places, Switzerland, or South America(Argentine and southern Brazil were popular with them). A few also went to the US but they were watched as potential spies of course)

In the news, Ukraine pretty much bankrupt


If Russia doesn't take the place, the banks will

Re: In today's news...

Cappy said:

You can notice evidence of it in that groups have a collectively lower IQ than an individual, regardless of the IQ average that one would expect of the people involved. Which is why radicals leading a movement can rally up normally perfectly intelligent rationale people and get them to do utterly retarded or abhorrent shit, that they may even come to regret later. You can scream and shout, "I wouldn't do it!", but if you were raised in Germany at the time period, you fucking would have.

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No, the intelligent people were either leaving the country, getting murdered because they opened their mouth, keeping for themselves or leading the Nazi rabble. And even when they were clearly profiting from being with the Nazis, there were still people who'd risk and/or give their lives to kill Hitler and his loyal dogs, as proven several times.

You seem to be convinced that the Nazi regime was built on "LOL LET'S KILL ALL JEWS". On the contrary, it was built on taking the country out of a deep financial crisis, a military crisis and a huge identity crisis for all Germans since World War 1. The Nazi core however, was pure scum. They'd recruit out of all layers of scum in occupied countries.

Re: In today's news...

super_slicer said:

And miraculously I did in fact NOT grow up in Nazi Germany. So someone with my exact DNA, who was raised in Nazi Germany COULD NOT BE ME. Your statement defeats itself in it's opening.

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That was the exact point I was making you shitlord. Circumstance dictates personality, having not been in the circumstance you can't say, "But oh, I wouldn't do that." because it's a complete non-point. You have no basis upon which to say it. You can perfectly well say that it's wrong and never should have or should happen, but there may well be a time if you ever serve in the military where you kill people who are only trying to defend themselves, not defenseless, helpless people with intent mind you, but all the same.

fagballs said:

No, the intelligent people were either leaving the country, getting murdered because they opened their mouth, keeping for themselves or leading the Nazi rabble. And even when they were clearly profiting from being with the Nazis, there were still people who'd risk and/or give their lives to kill Hitler and his loyal dogs, as proven several times.

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Yes there were some dissidents, because there are always exceptions. Are you implying that literally every intelligent competent person in Germany with any kind of heart just up and left, and every dumbass sheep with no mind of his own somehow managed to drive forward the success of the regime regardless of that? No, because that would be incredibly unlikely without the presence of passionate people, and competent intelligent people.

fagballs said:

You seem to be convinced that the Nazi regime was built on "LOL LET'S KILL ALL JEWS". On the contrary, it was built on taking the country out of a deep financial crisis, a military crisis and a huge identity crisis for all Germans since World War 1. The Nazi core however, was pure scum. They'd recruit out of all layers of scum in occupied countries.

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I literally never implied that anywhere, stop putting words in my mouth. And I'm fully aware that there were large difficulties and to some extent injustice occurring that lead the Germans up to that point, and drove Hitler's rise to the top into being. That's part of the reason why I'm being sympathetic of it in spite of the holocaust and incredibly disgusting things that came upon war victims alongside it, but I suppose when people throw accusations of me being a skinhead in just because I can't agree with the idea of going out of your way to execute an old dude who may or may not have done terrible things that he had extremely little choice in, with that little choice being demonized and hammered against through brainwashing day by day, clearly I should just pick up a shotgun and blow the fucking brains out of every dementia-ridden old person with any trace of the racially driven ideas of the 1940s-1960s for being dissidents to our perfect modern day utopia, because that's clearly what every good non-fascist should be willing to do, and spend money to do it while they're at it. HEIL DEMOCRACY! There's no irony or fascist elements to that at all.

Re: In today's news...

Cappy said:

That was the exact point I was making you shitlord. Circumstance dictates personality, having not been in the circumstance you can't say, "But oh, I wouldn't do that." because it's a complete non-point. You have no basis upon which to say it.

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You're the one who proffered this hypothetical situation turd emporer:

Cappy said:

I'd like to see you go through nazi military brainwashing and come out on the other side without having committed a few war crimes, AND SURVIVE. Then you can tell me about how we're obligated to hunt down these nazi bastards because, "It's the principle of the thing!", until then, you're just being an unnecessary rabble-rouser. And that's dumb. Even against nazis.

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I've bolded the important word there.

Just give up, there's no way you can twist this so you can say that you know how I'll act and I don't.

Cappy said:

You can perfectly well say that it's wrong and never should have or should happen, but there may well be a time if you ever serve in the military where you kill people who are only trying to defend themselves, not defenseless, helpless people with intent mind you, but all the same.

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There won't be a time when I'm in the military, haven't you been paying attention? I DON'T TAKE ORDERS.

Cappy said:

That's part of the reason why I'm being sympathetic of it in spite of the holocaust and incredibly disgusting things that came upon war victims alongside it, but I suppose when people throw accusations of me being a skinhead in just because I can't agree with the idea of going out of your way to execute an old dude who may or may not have done terrible things that he had extremely little choice in, with that little choice being demonized and hammered against through brainwashing day by day, clearly I should just pick up a shotgun and blow the fucking brains out of every dementia-ridden old person with any trace of the racially driven ideas of the 1940s-1960s for being dissidents to our perfect modern day utopia, because that's clearly what every good non-fascist should be willing to do, and spend money to do it while they're at it. HEIL DEMOCRACY! There's no irony or fascist elements to that at all.

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I swear, it's like you're not even reading posts all the way through... We already went over this, you didn't specify the exact situation which was occurring so I was forced to fill in the blanks (I admit wrongly). Then XSI was kind enough to answer my questions, and I retracted my original argument as it didn't really address what was happening. And no-one's calling you a skinhead, I simply stated that it feels like you might have been biased in some way against this situation by personal involvement.

Re: In today's news...

Alrighty lads, not to be 'that guy' but I'm starting to detect bad vibes here. I'd appreciate it if you two could keep it civil. I think I can see where it's going otherwise. Tah.

In blighty news, The Government's desire to reduce the Tax Credit system in order to try and lower the ballooning amount of welfare-related money going out of the system has been defeated twice by the House of Lords in one sitting.

Given that apparently the House of Lords (I keep misspelling it as 'house of kords') has no constitutional grounds for meddling with purely financial matters, the Government is reacting swiftly to 'review the constitutional abilities of the House of Lords'.

The idea was that to reduce Tax Credits, calling it 'taking money away from people, only to give it back to them' and to have the rise in minimum wage, free childcare extension and other rises to make up for it.

Re: In today's news...

Also, while nobody was noticing things, they changed the name of SOPA/PIPA/CISPA and passed it anyway

(Not a real quote)

Hah! Take that silly commonners! You're not allowed freedom or privacy!

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Edit: Also, Sweden asks NATO for help in censuring political views they disagree with


Because they believe everyone who does not agree with them is probably funded by Russia to hurt the country

Re: In today's news...

>Robyn Greene uses Sony Hack as an example of why the bill should be passed.

>Sony as a company has a track record of using next to no security measures or encryptions in place of information that in other cases they weren't even legally allowed to have, let alone legitimately.

Greene pls stahp.

Re: In today's news...

Been watching some footage of syrian refugees coming into Europe and the only question I can ask is "Where are all the women and children?"

Are we to believe all these males in their 20s and 30s just abandoned their families in supposedly "the most dangerous place on earth"?

Re: In today's news...

MrMe said:

Been watching some footage of syrian refugees coming into Europe and the only question I can ask is "Where are all the women and children?"

Are we to believe all these males in their 20s and 30s just abandoned their families in supposedly "the most dangerous place on earth"?

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Western powers are unable to deal with guerilla armies. Vietnam proves this. Iraq proves this. Afghanistan proves this. It doesn't take an extremist Muslim super genius to figure that one out.

Re: In today's news...

fagballs said:

Western powers are unable to deal with guerilla armies. Vietnam proves this. Iraq proves this. Afghanistan proves this. It doesn't take an extremist Muslim super genius to figure that one out.

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Haha, I know it's not what you meant, but made me think of something like this: